good book for spindle moulding

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jeffinfrance

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hi guys,

any reccomendations?

i am about to start doing some curved work and i am realising my limitations. the straight stuff with fences hasn't been too difficult to work out. but this a different ball game.....or so it seems.

jeff
 
Hi Jeff
There isn't one.
Th "best" is Stephenson. My copy is old and very dodgy. I believe there is a later revision, which may be better, I don't know.

I did think about producing a DVD about one, but came to the conclusion that, as it is not a hobbyist's machine the market would be too small to justify the work. I'm no expert myself either, but that is another matter.

My advice would be to find someone who can give you proper training. More expensive than a book, I know.
S
 
hi steve,

thanks for the tip, i'll do a search for it.

just rewatched the felder dvd and i've got the gist. need to source some guide rings now. i've noticed the felder rings are sold in 5mm increments of diameter. does that mean, if the tool diameter is inbetween the 5mm steps, the template has to be adjusted accordingly. just off to check my diameters.

jeff
 
Jeff
The diameter of the curve at the front of the ring should match your cutter block. The diameter is bigger fore and aft, so that you can approach the cutting action gently rather than with a sudden kick. Like a lead-in pin on a router table.

S
 
so the ring is eliptical?!?!

now i'm really confused, they look circular in the catalogues.

for sizing, i was thinki8ng of getting a 120mm ring (my tool is 117mm in a 115mm block) and setting my template back 3mm from the desired finished edge.

am i on the right track?
 
I meant that the cutter and ring should match at the front (more or less, depending on how much depth of cut you are taking), whilst there should be plenty of clearance away from the front for lead in. As I say, I'm no expert, I use mine once in a blue moon. You really need someone who is more experienced than I am.

S
 
i've noticed there's an entrance guide that came with the moulding hood which came with the machine. i'm guessing that helps with the infeed and then the guide ring takes over.

mr trend concurs that i should go for next ring oversize and adjust template accordingly.

thanks again steve,

all the best,

jeff
 
JeffinFrance,
Hi, When it came to using my Felder combi S/M I initially chickened out. A demo at the Felder Uk offices showed me how dangerous it could be.

Felder offered in the UK a 1 day course on the S/M which I took. Well worth the money even if it did include a 120 mile each way trip and 8 hrs in the workshop.

The guy who did the instruction to two of us also provides an advice line so that future problems can be addressed.

I strongly suggest that you take some instruction and be safe and not sorry.

best regards
Alan
 
thanks for the heads up alan. i must admit that would be a lovely idea, but a trip to austria would prove time consuming and expensive. i will enquire as to anything more local. maybe an open day on their kit staffed by experts would help also, i would love to be shown what the machine is truly capable of.

since my machine has been levelled off completely flat and the slider adjusted, i am a lot happier with the results, which is giving me more confidence.

jeff
 
Axy do "Spindle Moulder Handbook By Eric Stephenson"
and the "Shaper Book by Lonnie Bird" (american).
I don't have either so don't know how good they are.
I was taught at college and in the shop as an apprentice years ago, and actually prefer to do ring fence and ring bearing guided work to straight work, it's more fun.

With a ring fence the fence itself works as a lead in edge and can be more difficult to set up dependant on the machine/make. Due to the shape of the ring fence being more ovoid than circular.
Ring bearing guides need a lead in pin or adjustable arm to aid the approach of the workpiece to the cutter block. If the the approach is to aggressive: i.e. the cutter is confronted with too large a "bite" of the wood,
you will get a heck of a kickback that can cause damage to you or the work.
It is often worth taking several passes at a task that you would normally be happy to do in one pass when performed on the straight fence and power feed roller, be aware of you human limitations we are not all built like Mr Universe!
Make a non powered run after checking and double checking your set up, is the whole process comfortable, is there anything acting to obstruct the flow of work?
A lot of "dropping" the work into the cutter comes from experience but can be assisted by making the template/jig slightly overlong.
Large workpieces can be run without a template and the piece itself run against the guide dependant on the task, not for novices this method though, as some experience of the practice is very advisable.

In all it is like using an oversized router table with a bearing guided cutter,
just bigger, faster, louder and takes fewer prisoners. Safety, safety and safety are the mantra of the day.
Don't be afraid of the tooling, nervousnes bites back, just be very respectful and think the job through.

Rob.
 
I have both of those books Rob, and am in a similar position in that i'm about to start using a shaper. Stephenson is a good book in its own way, but is quite heavily health and safety driven. i.e. it looks at stuff through this lens, but doesn't really paint the total picture by leaving quite a lot unsaid.

The Lonnie Bird book is likewise OK, but not that comprehensive. It's a little dated, and is very US flavoured too.

Neither book gets down to the 'how to' level in a way that addresses the many minor but very important practicalities I suspect....
 
Lots of good advice but I would just add that you are not actually limited by the 5mm incremements since you can offset the radius of your guide board to suit. Sometimes this is a pain in the bum and, since you will already have been supplied with the curve moulding guard, I think it's worth getting the ring fence which attaches to this (they call it the "Workpiece Feed Guide" I think) - about £40.00. I prefer a bearing when given a choice but the ring fence is more versatile and, of course, can save you a lot of money by not having to have every diameter under the sun.

John
 
Jeffinfrance,

Yup a trip to Austria would be a bit to much maybe but given your recent issues with Felder why not lean on them to provide a more local service re the spindle moulder. Your recent troubles must give you some leverage.

Or maybe another local ish professional could be encouraged to train you in exchange for money

regards
Alan
 
after rewatching the felder video again, i noticed matey boy used guide rings, so plumped for a set of those from felder. a set of seven rings and bearing was only double the price of one ring, bearing and security ring from trend....unusual for felder!! my machine didn't arrive with the ring fence, so i guess i'll be using guide rings this time round.

once again though, the felder instruction book is woefully inadequate. however, with the help of you guys (once again) i feel ready for a few dry runs and a bit of practice, once my rings arrive of course.

there's a guy i met on here, christian, lives an hour away, i just remebered he offered me a show and tell at his shop. think i might take him up on that offer too.

i'm surprised a company like felder dont offer videos like steves to get the best out of their machines (his bandsaw vid is on my xmas list). the felder one is more of a marketing tool. it doesn't go into detail of each operation.

anyway, thanks again for all the advice.

all the best,

jeff
 
jeffinfrance":bh84a4ty said:
i'm surprised a company like felder dont offer videos like steves to get the best out of their machines

If you can get them to fund it, I'll produce it.

jeffinfrance":bh84a4ty said:
...his bandsaw vid is on my xmas list.

I think the phrase that springs to mind is Buy Now To Avoid Disappointment.
(Only 94 days left...)
S
 
Bearing rings are safe and simple, but not cheap, and you'd need a lot of them if you do a variety of work.
The biggest problem is that they are not adjustable - you are stuck with whatever radius you have and no fine adjustment is possible.
A ring fence is a much better option for curved work, very adjustable and adaptable to different needs.
You only need the one, and once you have set it up and got the hang of it, is very easy to work with.
 
cheers mr g,

i've found a pic of the ring fence in use and i've worked out how it works. funny that there's absolutely no word of the ring fence in their manual.

it does seem a more versatile bit of kit. i think the bearings are more suited to dedicated tooling which all appears to have diameters in multiples of 5mm.

i also noticed felder do a lovely cast aluminium moulding guard with a bearing/arbor mounted, two piece ring fence with adjustable scale.

only 600 quid..... :shock:

does anyone know how the ring fence (cheap version) is fixed to the moulding guard (cheap version)? is it fixed directly? is the depth of mould adjusted using the forward and back adjustment of the guard? cant quite make it out from the pictures.

seems a bit hit or miss.

must admit, i cant believe the ring fence didn't come as part of the guard.

jeff
 
jeffinfrance":2bvccypy said:
cheers mr g,

i've found a pic of the ring fence in use and i've worked out how it works. funny that there's absolutely no word of the ring fence in their manual.

it does seem a more versatile bit of kit. i think the bearings are more suited to dedicated tooling which all appears to have diameters in multiples of 5mm.

i also noticed felder do a lovely cast aluminium moulding guard with a bearing/arbor mounted, two piece ring fence with adjustable scale.

only 600 quid..... :shock:

does anyone know how the ring fence (cheap version) is fixed to the moulding guard (cheap version)? is it fixed directly? is the depth of mould adjusted using the forward and back adjustment of the guard? cant quite make it out from the pictures.

seems a bit hit or miss.

must admit, i cant believe the ring fence didn't come as part of the guard.jeff

This is probably due to the lack of bespoke curved stuff in Austria and Germany, why supply something that will not get used.
I asked my German employer about the ring fence for his spindle when I worked there, he said we don't do that work.
Since then I have had done some curved cornice moldings for a bedroom in an Austrian castle. The cutters were so large the spindle moulder sounded like a chinook. :lol:
If I had any holiday due I'd be happy to pop down in my camper and give you a "master class" not that I rate myself a master machinist, just experienced and comfortable with them. :)
Rob.
 
you're welcome to come rob. there's a lovely little camp site in the village, camper vans no problem. its about 12 euros a night with leccy. we've got a spare room too, when its finished!

i'm going to see a friend on saturday for a whiz round his kity, so that should keep me going.

all the best,

jeff
 
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