First import from the EU

[sploo]

I got told off for suggesting breaking the law earlier in this thread.

I'm assuming that if there's no commercial transaction it wouldn't be dishonest to mark the package as a gift. I could be wrong though.

 

[Rorschach]

I'm assuming that if there's no commercial transaction it wouldn't be dishonest to mark the package as a gift. I could be wrong though.

But marking as a gift won't affect the VAT charge.

 

[sploo]

But marking as a gift won't affect the VAT charge.

Ah. That sucks then.

Is there actually a legal route whereby that shipping could have been done without incurring extra charges? Obviously if it'd gone straight from the vendor to the end seller then the VAT could have been sorted, but understandably Ian isn't shipping outside of the UK due to the extra bureaucratic hassle.

 

[Jonm]

I can't understand the point you are making, a common currency didn't exist in 1975.

Of course a common currency did not exist in 1975, that is the point I am making. The Treaty of Rome had two basic aims
1. It created a common market based on the free movement of, goods, people, services, capital.
2. Serve as a step towards the closer political unification of Europe.

In 1975 there was obviously no internet and getting hold of a copy of the treaty of Rome to read would not be easy Let alone understand. Basically we were reliant on getting information from BBC tv, ITV tv, BBC radio, newspapers and anyone we knew. You listened/watched Tv/radio when it was broadcast, if you missed it that was it.

As I recall, all of the media information was about Item 1 above, although there must have been something about item 2 but it did not seem to be a factor in the discussion. A lot of people voting had lived through the war years, close political ties to Germany let alone France would not have gone down well so that aspect was suppressed. Brexiteers would claim this was lies by omission.

When Maastricht and Lisbon treaties came along that is when we should have had the referendum and debate. To sign up without a referendum and then have one later was/is bad government.

 

[Droogs]

C'mon chaps, comparing people who voted for Brexit to rapists is pretty insulting.

@Rorschach, I have in no way done that. I have merely pointed out that for many that is the way they feel. I have had some one who was raped and is a remainer say she feels the same way in the aftermath of both events.

 

[Rorschach]

@Rorschach, I have in no way done that. I have merely pointed out that for many that is the way they feel. I have had some one who was raped and is a remainer say she feels the same way in the aftermath of both events.

I really hope she can get the help she clearly needs then because that is a seriously worrying mental illness she has.

 

[Droogs]

Thanks @Rorschach you have very elequently made the argument for me. I rest my case and fervently hope you nor yours ever have to experience it just to see how facile and despicably cruel your mindset is shown by you to the rest of humanity.

 

[MarkDennehy]

I had no alternative, tuff saws no longer ship outside the UK. Rightly or wrongly they have always been helpful and I have faith in, and appreciate the wide range of blades available and the info to help you chose.

That has been the most personally annoying thing about all this. I've had to resort to... lesser bandsaw blades. Pretty sure a suspect weld on one was a contributing factor to the whole finger whoopsie thing as well.
I need a "Stupid Brexit Injury" t-shirt with that picture of the cut with the googly eyes.

 

[Jonm]

@Jonm , no your recollection is infact faulty. As has been posted of several times on this site (unfortunately in the deleted forums) even the Daily Fail in 1975 explained in many many articles, that the whole purpose of the EEC was for an initial trading block and then had the goal of ever closer political and legal homogenisation of Europe. So no lies by the pro side along those lines then nor now. Lots of very big ones by the leave side.

As for " Best to put it behind us and look forward. ". With the level of feeling and commitment over this issue that is exactly like asking a rape victim to be roomies with their rapist and that is exactly how it will remain, especially as most of those who voted leave will be dead before any real tangible benefits could be seen. Those who voted to remain will always consider themselves to be much worse off regardless of what occurs.

Edit
OK, I am in no way trying to belittle anyone who has had that sort of experience (I in fact know several people who have had this terrible ordeal). I am merely trying to point out how deep the emotional conviction runs in a lot of people. Other examples I could have used are Conferate citizens after their defeat, they (many whites in the South) still harbour resentment over this and it is displayed 4 generations later in the discrimination in the South. There are also the feelings of indigenous peoples who are still fighting in many places for their property and rights and even taking to terrorist action because the emotive feelings are still running very high (ETA, IRA, Serb troops in the 90s, Bosnians Croats, Morocans etc). Some of these are 10 of generations removed from the events and yet we still see conflict because of it.

There is no way in Hades that remainers will support Brexit as a good or the right thing, they may begrudginly accept the current situation and their inability to change things just now but will always harbour a desire/need/want/work towards regaining the rights and privelages they have lost. In fact many would be quite willing for the UK to go down in flames economically (That is not an exageration) if it meant the whole thing failed and the UK had to rejoin the EU and even hope that the people responsible suffer very much. That is how much the divide is between Leavers and Remainers. Remainers feel they have had their futures and opportunities ripped from them by a bunch of narrow minded biggots who wont be around to suffer the consequences of the their jingoistic hubris. that situation is not going to change and no amount of discussion on here about it will make any impact at all.

This thread is about how the new normal is affecting how we trade with our new situation and how it is either easier and more profitable or it is not. So far, I don't see any eveidence that is is a positive thing, except for those who do not trade outside the UKs borders or are involved in playing with large volumes of money where you can make a profit on all the misery and problems this little adventure has caused.

Feel free to remove/change your reactions if you disagree

[
Droogs, for the record, I voted to remain in the EEC in 1975 and voted to remain in the EU in 2016. (Note, we joined in 1973, the 1975 referendum was about leaving).

I think we have made a big error in leaving the EU but there is nothing that can be done about it for now. I was just trying to make the point that lying about the EU was not the sole preserve of the Brexiteers and in 1975 most people had been led to believe by the pro EEC lobby and government that we should stay in the EEC, European Economic Community, nothing about political union etc. There were no doubt articles about the political side but they were put forward by the leave supporters and did not get much airing. In 1975 we had BBC, ITV and perhaps one daily newspaper, not the deluge of information we get now. The government did not explain fully about the political side of staying in the EEC.

As for “most of those who voted leave will be dead before any real tangible benefits could be seen” I suggest you look again at the statistics. In the 25 to 49 age group it was 46% leave so nearly half. Or you could blame education, look at qualifications, A level 50% leave, GCSE or lower 70% leave. I know a lot of older people who voted remain and was very surprised by how many friends of my children, in their thirties, mostly professional people, who voted leave, one was a London Banker who voted leave. I have attached an extract from the yougov website giving the stats.

Most people do not talk about brexit. It is time to move on and stop winding ourselves up about something which cannot be changed at the moment. The EU will evolve and the common currency may force the eurozone in to something which would not suit us, who knows. We have to get on with life and wait till the next general election to see if there is a viable alternative to the buffoon.

As for the analogue with rape victims, it would have to be a very extreme remainer who feels like that.

 

[Jonm]

C'mon chaps, comparing people who voted for Brexit to rapists is pretty insulting.

Rorschach, what is going on, we are agreeing on something. Is this a short term truce or a lasting peace?

On a more serious note, sorry that I have been posting about Brexit, really this should be about the practical aspects of buying/selling with EU.

 

[Rorschach]

Rorschach, what is going on, we are agreeing on something. Is this a short term truce or a lasting peace?

On a more serious note, sorry that I have been posting about Brexit, really this should be about the practical aspects of buying/selling with EU.

Did we disagree on something before?
I suspect there are plenty of things we agree on, plenty of things we disagree on and probably a large number of grey areas as well. I always enjoy the discussion though and never hold a grudge (unlike some unfortunately)

Don't worry though, normal service will resume I expect and you can go back to thinking less of me

Oh and for the record, no contact from Customs so I think I am home and dry and I did indeed pay my VAT in Greece as assumed.

 

[powertools]

Of course a common currency did not exist in 1975, that is the point I am making. The Treaty of Rome had two basic aims
1. It created a common market based on the free movement of, goods, people, services, capital.
2. Serve as a step towards the closer political unification of Europe.

In 1975 there was obviously no internet and getting hold of a copy of the treaty of Rome to read would not be easy Let alone understand. Basically we were reliant on getting information from BBC tv, ITV tv, BBC radio, newspapers and anyone we knew. You listened/watched Tv/radio when it was broadcast, if you missed it that was it.

As I recall, all of the media information was about Item 1 above, although there must have been something about item 2 but it did not seem to be a factor in the discussion. A lot of people voting had lived through the war years, close political ties to Germany let alone France would not have gone down well so that aspect was suppressed. Brexiteers would claim this was lies by omission.

When Maastricht and Lisbon treaties came along that is when we should have had the referendum and debate. To sign up without a referendum and then have one later was/is bad government.

The treaty of Rome did not go as far as you say.

https://www.parliament.uk/about/liv...d-europe/overview/post-ww2-to-treaty-of-rome/

 

[pidgeonpost]

Thanks for posting that Mike (Edit - Noel).....It rather proves the point I was looking to make.

I followed Daniel Lambert's sorry experiences on Twitter. Poor fella. How he didn't cut his wrists is beyond me.

 

[RobinBHM]

I followed Daniel Lambert's sorry experiences on Twitter. Poor fella. How he didn't cut his wrists is beyond me.

He is fighting the government to try and stop them going ahead with VI-1 forms from July.

I don't know much about it other than the EU are scrapping it themselves.

 

[Jonm]

The treaty of Rome did not go as far as you say.

https://www.parliament.uk/about/liv...d-europe/overview/post-ww2-to-treaty-of-rome/

Well I did not make it up. Your link is a very short five line summary of the treaty of Rome.

I obtained my information from EUR-Lex, and I quote from their website

What is EUR-Lex?
EUR-Lex is your online gateway to EU Law. It provides the official and most comprehensive access to EU legal documents. It is available in all of the EU’s 24 official languages and is updated daily.

Who runs EUR-Lex?
EUR-Lex is run by the Publications Office of the European Union .

Here is a link to the document I used and you will see
under “Aims” it states
“serve as a step towards the closer political unification of Europe”

Under “Specific goals“ it states
“lay the foundations of an ‘ever closer union’ among the peoples of Europe“
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=LEGISSUM:xy0023
I think the above clarifies what your link meant by “secondly, to take a step closer to a unified Europe”.

 

[Jonm]

Oh and for the record, no contact from Customs so I think I am home and dry and I did indeed pay my VAT in Greece as assumed.

If you paid VAT in Greece but not uk, does that mean
a. your supplier in greece is registered for uk Vat, but I thought that procedure only applied to goods under £135 in value.
b. you paid Greek vat and got lucky regarding payment of uk vat.
c. Uk is behind in collecting their vat but have three years to catch up with you
d. Something else.

 

[Jonm]

This probably needs to be in its own thread, but this is an interesting read:

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-anxiety-disorder-britain-middle-class/Article intro:

Interesting article but it is dated August 2018 and a lot has changed since then. At the end of the article it says
“In that case, what I'd try to do is help the person become more flexible — in short, to learn how to live with the anxiety, tolerate the uncertainty, and work out how they can continue to engage with what truly matters to them in life, rather than getting caught up trying to change things they can't change.”
In other words, Remainers may just need to relax and get over it.

And that is what I have been saying on here. “It is time to move on and stop winding ourselves up about something which cannot be changed at the moment.“

 

[silentsam]

As for " Best to put it behind us and look forward. ". With the level of feeling and commitment over this issue that is exactly like asking a rape victim to be roomies with their rapist and that is exactly how it will remain, especially as most of those who voted leave will be dead before any real tangible benefits could be seen. Those who voted to remain will always consider themselves to be much worse off regardless of what occurs.

This is the most disgusting analogy I've ever heard. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Rorschach]

If you paid VAT in Greece but not uk, does that mean
a. your supplier in greece is registered for uk Vat, but I thought that procedure only applied to goods under £135 in value.
b. you paid Greek vat and got lucky regarding payment of uk vat.
c. Uk is behind in collecting their vat but have three years to catch up with you
d. Something else.

Pass, I'll take a question on Sport.

 

[Droogs]

This is the most disgusting analogy I've ever heard. You should be ashamed of yourself.

GOOD! Then it imparts the feelings of a lot of people in a way you can understand and appreciate. If after having to dig up the victims of mass murder and geonocide by hand for 5 months and then you can tell me the EU is a bad thing and jingoistic xenophobia is far better, I might listen.