festool - why?

[miles_hot]

What's so good about festool? How do their tools compare to stuff from Dewalt etc? Is their brand special in some way?

Many thanks

Miles

 

[p111dom]

What's so good about festool?

They tend to think a bit laterally than the other manufacturers focusing on little details which make a difference. For example they angle the handles on some of their routers in relation to the base because it's ergonomically more desirable. They have a packaging system which lends itself to transportation very well and all of their products have additional back up of bespoke extractors, addons etc. They were also the market leaded for a long time for track mounted circular saws. They also have the Domino which I own but have issues with. There's no denying though that this product is unique so if you want one it's Festool or bust.

How do their tools compare to stuff from Dewalt etc?

They are more different than you'd think. Dewalts are much more durable IMO. They feel like you could drop them off the roof and they would keep on going. Dewalts are simpler, less fiddly in general but also less inovative. With Festools stuff you can feel something is different as soon as you turn them on. Then there's other benefits such as a common power lead which unclips from the back of the tool. This means when on site you only have one trailing wire and only need one plug socket.

Is their brand special in some way?

They are special but not necessarily in a good way. I have no doubt that they are better tools than the equivelent Dewalts or Makitas but the prices are simple rediculous. At the Harrogate show they were selling a 12v small drill/driver for £350 :shock: . The equivelent item from Dewaly or Makita can be bought from Screwfix for £99. That fact of the matter is that whether the motors sound a bit rougher or a sliding action is a bit less smooth on say a Dewalt, their tools are robust and accurate and suitable for income generation. The biggest consideration for me would be that with the Dewalt gear, if it broke, there are loads of repaire centres locally where I could get it fixed the next day. Not so with the Festool stuff. You have to sent it away. They provide a free service which seems very good initially but 5 days later my item arrived back with a note saying "no fault found". This would be terrible if I needed this tool for my livelyhood. I've read threads on "the other side" where the general consensus is that Festool is a brand for private individuals who have too much money. To my shame I think that's probably pretty close to the mark.

 

[wizer]

The short answer is that their tools are very good, their sales regime is very clever (not all would agree with it) and their customers always seem to be very happy.

I haven't yet seen the light, but I'm sure I'll go down the festool road one day.

 

[Mr Ed]

Dom

I've never owned any Festool stuff, so am not really qualified to comment. What you have said largely confirms what I had always suspected though.

I spend 90% of my time out on construction sites and in the last couple of years I have only ever seen 1 festool item (a drill) being used. Normally its all Hilti, DeWalt and Makita being used by site tradesmen. There may be a distinction to those operating in a workshop environment, I don't know.

Cheers, Ed

 

[p111dom]

Yes Ed I've never seen a Festool product on site either. Wizer makes a good point as well that I missed. Their pricing policy is questionable at best but there are those on this forum that vehemently disagree with that view so I'll leave it there.

 

[Chris Knight]

Dom

I've never owned any Festool stuff, so am not really qualified to comment. What you have said largely confirms what I had always suspected though.

I spend 90% of my time out on construction sites and in the last couple of years I have only ever seen 1 festool item (a drill) being used. Normally its all Hilti, DeWalt and Makita being used by site tradesmen. There may be a distinction to those operating in a workshop environment, I don't know.

Cheers, Ed

Ed,
I suspect if you spent time on sites or in factories in Germany or Austria , you'd have formed a different impression.

 

[Anonymous]

Ed,
I suspect if you spent time on sites or in factories in Germany or Austria , you'd have formed a different impression.

Why-Aye man! Never saw any being used in Auf Wiedersehen Pet :wink:

 

[Another Dave]

their customers always seem to be very happy.

So that'll be why the User Group website has the large Festool Tool Problems section? :wink:


-

 

[Jake]

How do their tools compare to stuff from Dewalt etc?

They are more different than you'd think. Dewalts are much more durable IMO. They feel like you could drop them off the roof and they would keep on going.

That's a bit broadbrush.

For instance, I'd put the (old, dunno about the new one) Rotex way ahead of any other sander I've ever used or handled in the durability stakes - it's bulletproof.

In another thread, you complained that the domino was fragile compared to a Makita biscuit jointer, but that just seems apples and pears to me.

 

[Green]

I use a Festool Di-bond at work. Its basically a modded CS on a guide rail. This saw cost the company nearly 2 grand back when they bought it. For the money there is way too much pressed steel and creaky plastic, it looks and feels much cheaper than it was. I wouldnt spend my own money on festool.

 

[chippy1970]

I have a few Festool tools and yes they are very well made and well thought out.

I spoke to a rep the other day and he put it well he said that when say Dewalt want to bring out a new router they will say "we need to make a £199 router." where as Festool will say "we need to make a router that has this and will do that"

In other words they worry more about designing their tools well rather than what they can sell them for hence the high price compared to other makes.

Just an addition to the above I have now had a chance to read thru all the posts. People on many forums argue about wether Festool are worth the money, you would only ever know if they are if you have used them.

I personally like them as it all works as a system and is well thought out. I dont buy everything Festool ie drill drivers I have the Makita LI-ION kits and they are great.

A lot of my work is on building sites where I dont really need the Festool stuff so I just use Makita , Bosch etc but sometimes I might be working in a luxury house where I cannot make any dust and the Festool comes out.

Regarding someones comments that Dewalt were more hardwearing thats BO**ocks I have never had a Dewalt drill/driver but I remember years ago everyone I knew that had one had dropped them and snapped them clean in half. I have had 3 Dewalt routers and 2 have broke (not thru heavy use either).

 

[busy builder]

I see quite a few joiners using Festool up here around the Highlands. Mainly the TS55 and rails. Although I have the small planer, a 125mm orbital sander and a TS55 with twin rails etc. On top of that I also have a Mafell KSP40 plunge saw which is definately better built than any Bosch, Makita or Dewalt, and probably better than the Festool.

Saying all that, the Festool hand plane is really very very good, and much better designed than any of the other brands. The little 125mm ROS is excepional, little vibration, leaves a very good finish and feels well built. The bonus is the box system, I have bought a few extra boxes (used off ebay) for some of my other makita stuff as it makes carring/transporting so much easier and the systainers are very good. And the 3 year warranty is worth it too.

I'm not sure whether the router is worth the money though as I like my Makita 3612 and the drills cetainly are not woth £350 !!. Would I swop all my tools for Festool ??? No ! Also remember that you can get as much as 75% for you old stuff on Ebay when you are fed up with it.

 

[mailee]

Festool IMHO is typical German engineering. I should add I have never owned any Festool stuff but have tried a few items. Usually like BMW, Mercedes and other German manufactured equipment it is over engineered and you pay for this. Only problem is with over engineering it is more difficult to repair when it needs it and hence a higher price, longer repair time. I always go with the thinking that what site workers use is usually the best to go for as it is rugged and repairable and usually cost effective. :wink:

 

[p111dom]

It all depends on your perspective really. When ever I rent a van is always a pretty basic affair. Wind up windows, manually adjustable mirrors etc but it does the job for a a trades man with the minimum of expense. Meanwhile keeping it simple means there's less to go wrong. If a Festool product were a van it would have leather seats, electric everything and go faster than all its competitors. All that would be very nice but it's all completely unnecessary. How many trades people do you know that spec all the whisles? Very few. If you do they're probably German! :lol:

 

[busy builder]

It all depends on your perspective really. When ever I rent a van is always a pretty basic affair. Wind up windows, manually adjustable mirrors etc but it does the job for a a trades man with the minimum of expense. Meanwhile keeping it simple means there's less to go wrong. If a Festool product were a van it would have leather seats, electric everything and go faster than all its competitors. All that would be very nice but it's all completely unnecessary. How many trades people do you know that spec all the whisles? Very few. If you do they're probably German! :lol:

You've just described my lovely Nissan Navara Outlaw, elctric everything inc auto wipers, lights dipping rear view mirror and best of all 175BHP !!

It can still pull over 90mph with about a ton in the back too... :lol:

 

[p111dom]

I wasn't complaining its was just a factual observation. The dust extraction port on the Domino is very flimsy. It deflects by a large amount, when you add hose weight, and when using it at certain angles (angles of holding it not when cutting angles) the dust port can deflect towards the main body leaving not enough room for your hand. Obviously I wasn't comparing a biscuit jointer with the Domino. I was just saying that the Makita biscuit jointer feels a more robust tool. The dust outlet is out of the way and is way more substantial. No it can't cut slots but the Domino can't cut for biscuit. Never the less they share many design similarities such as the fence and plunging action. They are also both jointers just in different ways. I think comparing build quality between the two is reasonably fair.

 

[miles_hot]

A lot of my work is on building sites where I dont really need the Festool stuff so I just use Makita , Bosch etc but sometimes I might be working in a luxury house where I cannot make any dust and the Festool comes out.
.

I was wondering if this was one of the great distinguishing features as the excellent chap who did my floors had Festool and swore by the dust extraction and I note that the router that Wood Whisperer demo'd had a very neat dust extraction element...

Miles

 

[chippy1970]

It all depends on your perspective really. When ever I rent a van is always a pretty basic affair. Wind up windows, manually adjustable mirrors etc but it does the job for a a trades man with the minimum of expense. Meanwhile keeping it simple means there's less to go wrong. If a Festool product were a van it would have leather seats, electric everything and go faster than all its competitors. All that would be very nice but it's all completely unnecessary. How many trades people do you know that spec all the whisles? Very few. If you do they're probably German! :lol:

I dont think you can say that, take for example a TS55 saw there is nothing unnecessary on that saw there are great ideas like the splinter guard foot so that both the work peice and the offcut are splinter free.

There are a few things Festool have not put on the saw yet though that I have seen on the Mafell one, they have got over the need to add 5mm to your depth setting for rail use by using a rotating depth marker (simple).

 

[chippy1970]

A lot of my work is on building sites where I dont really need the Festool stuff so I just use Makita , Bosch etc but sometimes I might be working in a luxury house where I cannot make any dust and the Festool comes out.
.

I was wondering if this was one of the great distinguishing features as the excellent chap who did my floors had Festool and swore by the dust extraction and I note that the router that Wood Whisperer demo'd had a very neat dust extraction element...

Miles

I must admit Festool are not the only ones using auto dust extract systems most power tool manufacturers sell vacs for tools but Festool really promote their tools as a system .

The other day I had to make up basically a fake chimney to take a big plasma telly in a new build house I cut all the mdf up and at the end of the day there was hardly any dust on the floor.

I also have an ordinary Makita saw that I use everyday and even if I was to use a Henry vac taped to the outlet on that its nowhere near as dust free as the TS55 because of the actual design of the housing of the TS55.

The only dust you really see when using the Festool is when you are trimming an edge where you are just cutting off the thickness of the blade this is where the extraction isn't so good.

 

[Gavin-T]

I have got a festool tdk 15.6v drill, ts55 and the psb 300eq jigsaw and i use them all on site and i find them brilliant. They have all seen some hard use (shuttering!!) but they have been fault less.

Im on my second tdk now which is needing a new set of brushes but i dont think that is too bad after 2 1/2 years hard use. It has fell off the top of step ladders a few times too but its not done anything to it.

I have had dewalt. makita, metabo and el cheapo ryobi and i dont think regarding the drills at least anything comes close. I am quite happy to upgrade to the new li-Ion drill when mine does give up.

Gavin.