Face masks

[sploo]

I remember about 20 years ago, they was a jab for children to stop them from getting some real serious diseases. but they found that the drug they was giving the children. Was given the children some serious problem. Even though the government knew there was bad side effects that could effect your child.

I suspect you are referring to the claims by the then Doctor Andrew Wakefield (he was struck off I think last year) that MMR vaccinations caused Autism. This turned out to be total rubbish but the hullabaloo he caused led to some parents choosing to not have their children vaccinated, a corresponding spike in the associated illnesses and millions wasted to confirm he was talking trash. Allegedly this guy is now saying that Covid19 is a fake.

It's up to you to decide whether you believe him or not.

Ironically Wakefield's claims about MMR were only one part of his shady behaviour. Amongst a litany of unethical practices, he was performing potentially dangerous procedures on children that were not medically indicated (i.e. risky procedures that were not required for the care of the patient; only for the sole purpose of collecting samples): https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... th-autism/

 

[sploo]

Iv only ever had one flu jab. I was laid up in bed very ill after the injection. I told the nurse at the doctors and she told me I will be ok. so if they ask me if I want a jab. I will always say no. Because I don't want be ill like I was last time I had a jab.

This is entirely possible; but it's important to remember it's all about the numbers. A vaccine may well cause a response in the body (after all, it's training the immune system on what to look for and attack). In the overwhelming majority of people who are given any particular vaccine, there will be little or no reaction; but there will inevitably be a percentage who have a less pleasant experience.

The thing to consider is; without the flu jab, what is your risk rate for catching (and/or being severely affected by) a bout of the flu? Everything is a case of percentages; flu can kill (and to the best of my knowledge, the flu vaccination does not).

Note that there's also a non-zero chance that your illness after the jab wasn't related to the vaccine; i.e. you might already have caught another virus (or even the flu).

None of this is meant as criticism or an attack; it's just highlighting the problem with "samples of one".

 

[MikeG.]

May I ask why you don't want a flu jab?

Iv only ever had one flu jab. I was laid up in bed very ill after the injection. I told the nurse at the doctors and she told me I will be ok. so if they ask me if I want a jab. I will always say no. Because I don't want be ill like I was last time .

Maybe the nurse injected the wrong arm, if she had used the other arm you would have been fine.

I'm wondering if the injection wasn't in the Arcuate Fasciculus .....

Superb!! =D> =D>

 

[John Brown]

It appears that you only joined this forum to spread ignorance and nonsense.
Sorry to all for responding to the troll.

 

[Inoculate]

Face masks main intention is to protect others from being infected by you in case you are infected. I just can't understand why the US is still debating over to wear or not to wear.

 

[John Brown]

Another one.
Maybe we need a rule, like how you can't post pictures until you've made n posts, you can't participate in off-topic forums until you've asked some woodworking questions...

 

[Lons]

Face masks main intention is to protect others from being infected by you in case you are infected. I just can't understand why the US is still debating over to wear or not to wear.

The "US" part may provide a clue. Land of the Trump supporters.

 

[RogerS]

I don't understand why they have made that we have to use face masks.

It’s somewhere between because it’s the best that Boris & Co think they can get away with to keep us safe and because there is a secret plot to steal our civil liberties. The best you will get here is a range of opinions which are all covered earlier in this thread.

I thought that wearing masks was to hide us from aliens ?

 

[billw]

Face masks main intention is to protect others from being infected by you in case you are infected. I just can't understand why the US is still debating over to wear or not to wear.

Republicans

 

[Trainee neophyte]

If we are talking about whether or not to take a vaccine, Yale University is doing a study to test which propaganda messages will be the most effective to convince the population to line up for their shots. We don't have a vaccine yet, but it's always good to have the narrative in place early.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04460703

So when you start seeing some of these memes on Facebook, you will be able to recognise which cohort it is aimed at, and why. A few quotes from the link:

Experimental: Social pressure- guilt
Experimental message arm.
Other: Guilt message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one's family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and society must work together to get enough people vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the guilt they will feel if they don't get vaccinated and spread the disease.

Experimental: Social pressure- embarrassment
Experimental message arm.
Other: Embarrassment message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one's family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and by working together to make sure that enough people get vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the embarrassment they will feel if they don't get vaccinated and spread the disease.

Experimental: Social pressure- anger
Experimental message arm.
Other: Anger message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one's family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and by working together to make sure that enough people get vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the anger they will feel if they don't get vaccinated and spread the disease.

 

[Blackswanwood]

The word propaganda conjures negative connotations. Isn’t this just a public health message?

 

[Sheffield Tony]

If you want to get the naximum people vaccinated, they seem to have it wrong. Forget societal pressure, family, embarrassment etc. People influenced like that will go for the vaccine anyway. Tell people (true or not) once you're vaccinated that's you ok to take off your mask and do exactly what you please. It is the selfish b*****ds you need to appeal to.

 

[RogerS]

If we are talking about whether or not to take a vaccine, Yale University is doing a study to test which propaganda messages will be the most effective to convince the population to line up for their shots. We don't have a vaccine yet, but it's always good to have the narrative in place early.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04460703

So when you start seeing some of these memes on Facebook, you will be able to recognise which cohort it is aimed at, and why. A few quotes from the link:

Experimental: Social pressure- guilt
Experimental message arm.
Other: Guilt message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one's family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and society must work together to get enough people vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the guilt they will feel if they don't get vaccinated and spread the disease.

Experimental: Social pressure- embarrassment
Experimental message arm.
Other: Embarrassment message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one's family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and by working together to make sure that enough people get vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the embarrassment they will feel if they don't get vaccinated and spread the disease.

Experimental: Social pressure- anger
Experimental message arm.
Other: Anger message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one's family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and by working together to make sure that enough people get vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the anger they will feel if they don't get vaccinated and spread the disease.

Your point is what, exactly ? You seem to like speaking in soundbites that don't actually make any sense.

A lot of people are stupid.
A lot of people are selfish
A lot of people are both.

So if you are trying to get an important message into their thick skulls then you need to consider every angle - just plain common sense.

So...your point was ...what ?

 

[sploo]

A lot of people are stupid.
A lot of people are selfish
A lot of people are both.

So if you are trying to get an important message into their thick skulls then you need to consider every angle - just plain common sense.

Somewhere there's a solution that covers the whole demographic. Maybe... driving a big red bus with a message on the side, past a packed beach.

Ahem. Sorry.

 

[Rorschach]

Speaking of packed beaches, I notice the MSM are not making such a big fuss this time round as they did with Bournemouth. In fact no-one seems to be talking about Bournemouth anymore :roll:

 

[Trainee neophyte]

If we are talking about whether or not to take a vaccine, Yale University is doing a study to test which propaganda messages will be the most effective to convince the population to line up for their shots. We don't have a vaccine yet, but it's always good to have the narrative in place early.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04460703

So when you start seeing some of these memes on Facebook, you will be able to recognise which cohort it is aimed at, and why. A few quotes from the link:

Experimental: Social pressure- guilt
Experimental message arm.
Other: Guilt message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one's family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and society must work together to get enough people vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the guilt they will feel if they don't get vaccinated and spread the disease.

Experimental: Social pressure- embarrassment
Experimental message arm.
Other: Embarrassment message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one's family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and by working together to make sure that enough people get vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the embarrassment they will feel if they don't get vaccinated and spread the disease.

Experimental: Social pressure- anger
Experimental message arm.
Other: Anger message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one's family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and by working together to make sure that enough people get vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the anger they will feel if they don't get vaccinated and spread the disease.

Your point is what, exactly ? You seem to like speaking in soundbites that don't actually make any sense.

A lot of people are stupid.
A lot of people are selfish
A lot of people are both.

So if you are trying to get an important message into their thick skulls then you need to consider every angle - just plain common sense.

So...your point was ...what ?

Good to see we are talking again. It's lonely being on "ignore".

My point is that I find it interesting that such effort is put into manipulating the public. Manipulating me. Personally, I prefer not to be manipulated. I like to imagine (probably erroneously ) that I am free to make up my own mind. It seems that not only do the various governments go to a lot of trouble to make up the minds of their citizens on their citizens behalf, but also that quite a lot of the citizens embrace this wholeheartedly. Regardless of the subject at hand, government ought to exist for the benefit of the people, rather than the other way around. Anyone for a war in {insert nation here}? There's a department in Yale who can help sell it to the people... (weapons of mass destruction might not be an easy sell third time around - best go for something more emotive, like gender rights.)

 

[sploo]

My point is that I find it interesting that such effort is put into manipulating the public. Manipulating me. Personally, I prefer not to be manipulated. I like to imagine (probably erroneously ) that I am free to make up my own mind. It seems that not only do the various governments go to a lot of trouble to make up the minds of their citizens on their citizens behalf, but also that quite a lot of the citizens embrace this wholeheartedly. Regardless of the subject at hand, government ought to exist for the benefit of the people, rather than the other way around. Anyone for a war in {insert nation here}? There's a department in Yale who can help sell it to the people... (weapons of mass destruction might not be an easy sell third time around - best go for something more emotive, like gender rights.)

The problem is that, in the case of a virus and a vaccine, the "honest" route is to present the public with the current state of the medical research; including the statistical data weighing up the various risks.

Clearly the overwhelming majority would not be able to make sense of that information (myself included), so other routes need to be taken.

Granted, it then becomes a moral grey area if you "manipulate" or scare someone into doing something because you're actually trying to protect them (and those around them).

 

[Woody2Shoes]

......My point is that I find it interesting that such effort is put into manipulating the public. Manipulating me. Personally, I prefer not to be manipulated. .....

The trouble is, often as not, it's someone else's government (and/or other unelected vested interests), or their proxies, trying to do the manipulation....

eg https://content.govdelivery.com/attachm ... 281%29.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3490543/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53433523
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... y-public1/
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... r-spending

The old joke used to be about the marketing director who said "I'm convinced that half my advertising spend is wasted - the trouble is, I don't know which half."
With modern internet/bigdata tools, the truth is that 'advertising' of whatever kind can be much much more effective (a bit like the difference between a 'dumb' bomb and a laser/gps guided munition)...

 

[MikeG.]

.........Good to see we are talking again. It's lonely being on "ignore"......

There's lots of lonely people on this forum, then, as a direct result of this thread.

 

[RogerS]

...
Your point is what, exactly ? You seem to like speaking in soundbites that don't actually make any sense.

A lot of people are stupid.
A lot of people are selfish
A lot of people are both.

So if you are trying to get an important message into their thick skulls then you need to consider every angle - just plain common sense.

So...your point was ...what ?

Good to see we are talking again. It's lonely being on "ignore".

My point is that I find it interesting that such effort is put into manipulating the public. Manipulating me. Personally, I prefer not to be manipulated. I like to imagine (probably erroneously ) that I am free to make up my own mind. It seems that not only do the various governments go to a lot of trouble to make up the minds of their citizens on their citizens behalf, but also that quite a lot of the citizens embrace this wholeheartedly. Regardless of the subject at hand, government ought to exist for the benefit of the people, rather than the other way around. Anyone for a war in {insert nation here}? There's a department in Yale who can help sell it to the people... (weapons of mass destruction might not be an easy sell third time around - best go for something more emotive, like gender rights.)

It's a non-issue. Stop fretting about it.