Energy rating on new appliances, don't be fooled

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Mr_P

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Just installed Mother's new oven, she sent me the spec before buying and I spotted the "A" rating and didn't think any more about it. Unpacked it and it has a nice big sticker showing the rating "A" but three above it, grrr pesky online shopping.

A+++
A++
A+
A <-----
B, C, and D below.


So don't make my mistake, might have bought it anyway as she only wanted a cheapy to last a few years as she wants to move.
 
There is always more to this kinda environmental thing then is obvious. Like where the thing was made, how much energy was expended when it was made, how long it lasts, etc... the most environmental friendly thing to do is buy stuff second hand, a simple reality that is always ignored because so much on the economy is reality on people buying new stuff all the time.

lurker is right, Stuff like the A ratings are just advertising gimmicks and ignore the reality of human induced climate change and environmental impacts.
 
Sporky McGuffin":2lokeimu said:
How do they work out efficiency for an oven? They turn everything into heat!
Always asked that same question re. fan heaters. The only thing I can suppose is that some have better temeperature control so less overshoot. PID on a ceramic fan heater? Maybe...
 
themackay":3ioz4xgj said:
I have wondered how can an oven be more efficient aopart from more insulation

Bingo.

At the end of the day most folk want an oven that is big on the inside and and small on the outside. To put in high (thick) levels of insulation will impact on this. If you want to be super green try a haybox cooker :D
 
Paint your cookware black!

Seriously, all the fuss over lightbulbs was driven by manufacturers and retailers wanting bigger profits, NOT environmental friendliness.

As Rhyolith says, the dust-to-dust cost is the ONLY true measure, alongside the environmental impact of obtaining the materials and the effect their eventual disposal has on the environment.

I think certain car makers* should have been prosecuted for selling "hybrid" cars:
- for fraud (they're not at all green),
- for extortionate running costs (HOW much is that battery?),
- for environmental damage in manufacturing and scrappage.

Our old lightbulbs used glass (sand), and a bit of tungsten and brass and a small amount of argon. Kind to the environment, cheap to make, and pretty re-cycleable. The new ones... mercury, about a dozen electronic components, plastics, and so on. The components have to be made (in different factories), shipped to the assembly plant, put together, carefully packaged (more fragile than tungsten bulbs!), and sold. No wonder they cost what they do! Then there's the disposal cost, too.

Even LED bulbs need circuitry to drop 240V to the 1-3V they need to operate.

Old bulbs' waste was simply heat. New bulbs (CFLs) emit significant amounts of RF noise, causing interference on wireless systems etc.

To understand 'why,' always follow the money...

E. (the cynic)

PS: CFL contain electrolytic capacitors, so will deteriorate if left unused for long enough, and fail to strike. Tungsten bulbs just sit there, for decades potentially, with no degradation.

PPS: If everyone was told they're driving around with primed explosives less than 15 inches from their faces, who'd want airbags? In the case of my wife and daughters (who are all petite), it's as little as 10", and would probably be fatal if detonated. Tried to get them removed/disabled - main dealership didn't want to know. In the USA, several people every year are killed by steering wheel airbags.
 
"In the USA, several people every year are killed by steering wheel airbags."

On the other hand, they estimate that air bags have saved 15,000 lives in the past 20 years in the USA.
Even allowing for bit of hype or bias, that still seems like a worthwhile trade-off.
 
Eric The Viking":1ym29lpj said:
New bulbs (CFLs) emit significant amounts of RF noise, causing interference on wireless systems etc.

CFLs are outdated now, and LED bulbs emit far less RF noise. Looking at whole life impact they are less damaging than incandescent lamps, basically because of their much lower running costs and much longer life which easily outweigh the additional manufacturing impact.

PPS: If everyone was told they're driving around with primed explosives less than 15 inches from their faces, who'd want airbags? In the case of my wife and daughters (who are all petite), it's as little as 10", and would probably be fatal if detonated. Tried to get them removed/disabled - main dealership didn't want to know. In the USA, several people every year are killed by steering wheel airbags.

US airbags are rather different than ours; because much of the US doesn't have seatbelt legislation their airbags are much larger. It's probably worth weight lives saved by airbags against lives taken by them, and then working out whether the latter would have survived without an airbag. The figures from the US are 175 fatalities in 10 years, mostly children in rear-facing child seats on the front passenger seat (counter-indicated in all the manuals), versus 6,377 verified lives saved. Total 3.3 million deployments. I think that shows how low the risk is from airbags, even the gargantuan US ones.

Reductionism isn't generally useful - for a counterpoint, how many people would be happy to breathe a cocktail of gasses, all of which are significantly dangerous? That's air for you. Nitrogen is particularly dangerous but makes up about 78% of air. Over three quarters of air is deadly! The next 21%-ish is highly reactive and very flammable, and the next most significant ingredient, argon, is a dangerous asphyxiant. But you tell a doctor you don't want to breathe air and they don't want to know. ;)
 
themackay":21c5c75d said:
I have wondered how can an oven be more efficient apart from more insulation

You could always give this a go :D. Probably works better in Greece though. I want one of these.

Eric The Viking":21c5c75d said:
Our old lightbulbs used glass (sand), and a bit of tungsten and brass and a small amount of argon. Kind to the environment, cheap to make, and pretty re-cycleable. The new ones... mercury, about a dozen electronic components, plastics, and so on. The components have to be made (in different factories), shipped to the assembly plant, put together, carefully packaged (more fragile than tungsten bulbs!), and sold. No wonder they cost what they do! Then there's the disposal cost, too.

This is where (IMHO) we were sold a dud - CFL's. I had my hesitations at the time they came out - poor colour rendering mainly. But with a few years, it is now clear that they don't deliver the MTBF that they claimed; they only deliver the light ouptut claimed when new (if at all). Yes they save energy, but so does sitting in the dark. And everything Eric says about the components, manufacture and disposal - with the possible exception that it has been claimed that more mercury is released into the environement by the extra coal burnt to power a tungsten filament lamp over its life (if we believe its MTBF claims), than is contained in a CFL.

Eric The Viking":21c5c75d said:
In the USA, several people every year are killed by steering wheel airbags.
Probably worth noting that US airbags are (or at least were) specified on the assumption that the driver might not be wearing a seatbelt, European ones are not so violent. Perhaps things have changed ? [editied to add - sorry, someone types faster than me !]
 
We looked a freezers, the new ones have so much insulation in the actual space for the food is tiny!

Pete
 

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