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Ozi

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No we don't have anything that daft , yet. :)
How does that work. If you have a '57 chevy do you have to spoil it by fitting new wheels and tyres?
We do on all new registrations and have had for ten years, that's not new cars but new models, it's not that daft either a high proportion of cars without are running on underinflated tyres and with modern suspension it's not easy to feel when thats the case. It wastes fuel wears out tyres and increases stopping distances, why would you not want an automated warning?
 

Jonm

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I appreciate that it used to be common to “repair” a puncture in a tubeless tyre by inserting a tube. Things are different now, both technically and legally.

If someone decides to put an inner tube in a tyre/wheel designed to be tubeless then it is up to that person to prove the modification is safe. Unless that person is an expert in the field, it is a case of contacting the wheel, tyre and inner tube manufacturers, with full details of the components, vehicle and pressures it will be run at. I doubt that anyone would receive written approval from them all.

Legally (referring to my post above) the emphasis is on the user, it states “uses, or causes or permits another to use, a motor vehicle or trailer on a road when—............ the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person

Personally I would not do it, other than as a “get you home” low speed short distance temporary repair, with it on a rear wheel. Imagine doing an emergency stop from 70 mph and a front tyre blows.
 
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Inspector

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No we don't have anything that daft , yet. :)
How does that work. If you have a '57 chevy do you have to spoil it by fitting new wheels and tyres?
The TPMS (Tire Pressure Monitoring System) sensors mount in the wheel rim in place of the regular valve stem, what shows is a slightly different looking stem. The sensor that reads them is out of sight and I displays in the instrument cluster. There are aftermarket systems you can add to an older car should you like. Most people restoring '57 Chevy the vehicles are replacing the drum brakes for disc so doing it at the same time is no big deal and could protect the investment of an expensive restoration. There are very few cars restored to exact factory new condition these days. My only real gripe with TPMSs is most of the car manufactures here require an external reader to reprogram the system to recognize the position of the wheels when you rotate the tires or switch out the summer tires for winter tires on extra rims and guess what! They charge you every time they do so. :mad: At least the wife's new Audi lets you do it by selecting a couple buttons to store the new info.

One thing to consider when putting an inner tube in a tubeless tire is the heat dissipation characteristics may different with what amounts to thicker rubber in the assembly. How much it would impact that tire could only be answered by the engineers in a tire plant.

Pete
 

Sandyn

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ISO 10191 . Passenger car tyres — Verifying tyre capabilities — Laboratory test methods.
This standard applies to all tyres used on passenger cars. There are specific tests for tubeless tyres, but no tests specified for the use of tubes in tubeless tyres.

Tubeless tyres are not designed to use with a tube. They also don't test tyres filled with expanding foam, but I'm sure someone somewhere has used that on a road vehicle. :D

There are circumstances where you might fit a tube. Avon tyres do have recommendations for fitting tubes to tubeless tyres, but it talks about 'appropriate use' and seeking professional advice. I don't think fitting a tube with a tubeless wheel/tyre is appropriate use. It also says tubes should never be used to repair a puncture in a tubeless tyre.

An interesting bit I found:-
" When a tubeless tyre is punctured, the penetrating object is gripped by the inner liner (the built-in tube) and thus air loss through the penetration will be gradual. By contrast, when a tube type or a tubeless tyre fitted with a tube is punctured, once the tube is penetrated, air loss will normally be sudden. In this case, air will rapidly escape through the valve hole in the wheel and between the tyre beads and the wheel which, with a tube fitted, no longer provides a hermetic seal. Sudden pressure loss in a tyre can result in the bead dislodging and a loss of vehicle control. "

I suppose a similar argument exists for the use of after market tyre sealant in a passenger car. Is that 'legal'? :unsure:
 

Just4Fun

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Iirc our local large (independent) tyre supplier won't fix punctures on tyres that have had sealants used in them.
A friend used tyre sealant to temporarily repair a puncture on a nearly new tyre. He took it to a tyre shop and they did repair the puncture but the tyre was scrapped anyway because it proved impossible to re-balance it. Even after cleaning out the remains of the sealant as thoroughly as they could the tyre was unusable. Maybe that is why tyre companies don't want to repair tyres that have been treated with sealant.
 

D_W

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I agree with this approach.

Car manufacturers don't want their products flying off the road and therefore we can presume they tell us which tyre keeps our car (and all its integrated systems) functioning optimally.

Whether or not a plug is a good idea depends entirely on how you use the car. I say: heavy loads and/or high speeds, replace the tyre (or tyres). I am not interested in discovering the service limit of a tyre plug on a motorway.
Commercial tires are heavily repaired here. I recall an older OTR mechanic saying that a good driver could get a million miles out of a set of tires on a semi (not sure if that includes steering tires).
 

D_W

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A friend used tyre sealant to temporarily repair a puncture on a nearly new tyre. He took it to a tyre shop and they did repair the puncture but the tyre was scrapped anyway because it proved impossible to re-balance it. Even after cleaning out the remains of the sealant as thoroughly as they could the tyre was unusable. Maybe that is why tyre companies don't want to repair tyres that have been treated with sealant.
Anyone capable of changing a tire can manage to install the type of plugs they sell here. They're generally about $10 for 5 along with the cleanout/install tool. Their disclaimer notwithstanding, I've never had one fail during the remaining life of a tire.

Not sure what a commercial truck shop does on really heavy tires.
 

Jameshow

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You can repair tyres with a plug. I cannot see how they would come out as they have a large flange on the inside.

Cheers James
 

D_W

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I believe those are referred to as plug patches here. The plugs are a snake of really soft compound with an adhesive. Most of the loop goes into the tire and stays inside and the excess folded amount is cut off on the outside. If they started to work their way out, they'd stick out of the tire, but I've not seen any of that.

Plug patches require amounting, but aren't horribly expensive (about $30).
 

Spectric

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They don't make them all the same because then you would all have to buy tyres rated for high speeds, which are more expensive. For example my 1988 500se Mercedes has a top speed electronically limited to 155mph. The specified tyres are rated for that speed, and very expensive. Since I don't intend to ever drive it at anything like that speed, I have fitted tyres rated up to I think 120mph, much cheaper.
Technically speaking you only need an L rated tyre in the UK which is good for a sustained speed of 75mph, ie exceeds the max speed limit on a motorway, but given the 10% allowance on speeding then use N rated that will be ok for 87 mph. The issue is that in the UK, quote " You can invalidate your car insurance by fitting new tyres that have a lower speed rating than the manufacturer’s original fit" so this means you have to fit expensive tyres that you will not require so another rip off.
 

Just4Fun

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Anyone capable of changing a tire can manage to install the type of plugs they sell here. They're generally about $10 for 5 along with the cleanout/install tool. Their disclaimer notwithstanding, I've never had one fail during the remaining life of a tire.
This comment puzzled me because it didn't seem related to my post which you quoted. Then I read this ...
I believe those are referred to as plug patches here. The plugs are a snake of really soft compound with an adhesive.
So I think we are talking abount different things. The sealant my friend used was the stuff that comes in a sort of aerosol can that you inject into the tyre via the air valve. It forms a sort of mousse all around the inside of the tyre, sealing the puncture and coating everything else, creating a real mess. This is, I believe, only intended to be a temporary, get you moving, fix. Quite different to the plugs you mention, which I don't recall ever seeing on retail sale here.
 

whatknot

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Other way around, the cheaper tyres are made of softer compound and therefore do not last as long


Very unlikely. The more expensive tyres usually last a shorter time on the vehicle as they typically have better grip so softer rubber so shorter life.
 

Phil Pascoe

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At least with nearly all cars you have the choice of manufacturers - for my bike I had to buy Bridgestones or ........... Bridgestones - they were the only manufacturers who made the necessary sizes.
 

MarkAW

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I suspect that they all use the same back-end with just the user interface bespoked to their brand.
It's a thing known as white labelling. They are all the same company, but different 'brands' or trading names. Sometimes often the same system with the name and colours changed
 

Phil Pascoe

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Many moons ago I commented to a friend that I'd noticed a set of points for my Volvo was £2.45 and the same set (identical serial number) for my BMW bike was £3.35. He said pity you didn't get then for a Volkswagen, they 're the same points and they're 85p.
 

D_W

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This comment puzzled me because it didn't seem related to my post which you quoted. Then I read this ...
So I think we are talking abount different things. The sealant my friend used was the stuff that comes in a sort of aerosol can that you inject into the tyre via the air valve. It forms a sort of mousse all around the inside of the tyre, sealing the puncture and coating everything else, creating a real mess. This is, I believe, only intended to be a temporary, get you moving, fix. Quite different to the plugs you mention, which I don't recall ever seeing on retail sale here.
My apologies - I may have visited, started a post and come back and finished it with a dud reference later.

The tire goo is the same here - it creates a mess inside the wheel and tire and I've never used it because of that (it makes sense to someone who may not understand what's going on and what happens then when the tire is replaced). Not sure how much the tire goos can seal, but I love the plugs (even though they're suddenly not considered adequate here now that plug patch is available instead of just plug.

I recall mentioning the plugs to my dad (they used to be $2 for a kit, but auto parts places now sell nothing for $2 - so you're forced to get one or two for $7 or 5 at a time for $10 - I do the latter) as a day or two in, I didn't feel the need to go have the plug replaced with a plug patch and he more or less said "we didn't have anything but plugs when I was a kid and thus they were considered perfectly fine.

He grew up on a farm, and if you're on a farm, there's always something going through tires - even things like locust thorns. He couldn't recall a plug ever failing. Perhaps a "real tire man" on here could comment, but I talked to an older tire guy who said something about plug patches not necessarily being better as he'd suggested that he'd seen them relegated to plug only after the patch inside the tire lost adhesion. Growing up in a small town, I sometimes wait for a second opinion of the same thing as "pro" doesn't mean someone is particularly careful about their judgements or advice.
 
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