Electric vehicles
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JobandKnock
Amateur curmudgeon
Well lucky you. You obviously live and work in some sort of OCD heaven, however the real world I and many others inhabit isn't that neat and tidy.
For example, go to do a joist repair as described by a building surveyor and what is estimated as a 4 hour task might turn into a far longer job involving many more tools than was originally envisaged and taking a lot longer. The job might come in as an emergency late in the afternoon or in a week when the contractor doesn't have anyone local with the required certification (e.g. IPAF, PASMA, confined spaces, harness, SMSTS, etc) so has to bring in an outsider. Buildings can be extremely complex and there is often a public safety element in the long trips I and some of my colleagues undertake - so your "lack of forethought" is no such thing. Unfortunately the world doesn't run to a nice well defined timetable, but TBH I don't expect IT people to understand that
Now who's showing their ignorance? Any tradesman here would be able to tell you that you don't unload your van when you get to a distant job - your van is an office, a material carrier, a mobile tool vault, and often a mobile workshop, too. It would probably take me a.n hour or more to unload my van (and to repack it at the end of day) only to discover that there is nowhere secure to store my kit on site, so it's a preposterous idea. We are often working in places which are a long way from any infrastructure with booger all public transport. And in any case leaving a van with tools in it where it can't be monitored is an open invitation to every thieving scrote in the locality.
Granted, things need to change, but as I stated earlier we are a very long way off a situation thstvis viable and whilst the scenario I illustrated earlier is theoretically feasible eith your van, in the real world, the now world, it is highly likely to leave the poor tradesman high and dry somewhere or other
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Sadly it's people like Droogs who make the rules we all will have to live by.
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
no it aint, if it was you would know. Things change guys - adapt improvise and overcome or die by the wayside.
Cooper
Established Member
No it isn't, it's all of us who have the vote.
I wonder with all the negative comments about EV here, what those who make the comments have as an alternative solution, to the action needed to avert the climate emergency? I suspect that it is to look to the people "who make the rules we live by" to find a solution that lets them get on with life without making any changes and somebody else has to alter their behavior. At least 10 times a day various supermarket and mail order delivery vans come to our street, of about 30 homes, none of the vans are electric, there is massive scope for electric vans which would make a substantial CO2 reduction. All new Cabs are electric and they are still in business.
Depends I guess if you think there is a climate emergency. The climate is changing of course, whether man-made or not we know it's changing because it would it naturally even without us here. The question is if it's an emergency or not and are the steps we are taking justified and proportionate (hmmm where I have said that before? lol).
Sachakins
The most wasted of days is one without woodwork
Y
In order to properly quote a median figure, statistically you need to indicate the mean displacement, which is the outliers mean at a given statistical interval, could be the CI (confidence interval, normally given as a percentage or a measure at + or - 2 standard deviations from that mean displacement.
Using your assumptions, without knowing the median displacement, is absolutely useless for forecasting EV usage.
As an example the average mileage in uk.
And yes I have done my research, these are not plucked out of thin air.
The average motorist in the United Kingdom drove up to 10,000 miles per year. In 2018, 35 percent of respondents stated that they drove between one to 5,000 miles annually, which was an increase compared to the year before. Mileage for private travel was highest when compared to other purposes, according to a governmental survey among British car drivers. In 2017, an average of roughly 4,500 miles were driven for private reasons.
As this shows, if you don't account for users in the higher mileage bracket, you will then condemn nearly a quarter of motorists to the scenario that a lot of people against EV have, which is "Range Anxiety
This is easily resolved from two aspects.
EV with a Guaranteed Minimum range of 425 miles, not an up to figure, as we all know that the quoted MPG/MPCharge, even with the new WLTP assessment, still do not represent real life driving
A EV charging network structure that is comparable to wet fuel forecourt, ie plentiful and usable by 95% of vehicles, which also requires that a charging system is standardised across the network and that cars have just the one or two types of socket/plug Just as Petrol and Diesel are standardised.
Note Petrol to change in 2021
E10 petrol - a more eco-friendly type of petrol containing up to 10 per cent ethanol - will be available at fuel stations across the UK from September 2021 and become the default form of petrol, with the aim of reducing CO2 emissions.
The Department for Transport (DfT) announced the launch of E10 petrol following a consultation with motorists and the automotive industry. E10 - which is a mixture of standard petrol and ethanol made from materials including low grade grains, sugars and waste wood - is expected to cut CO2 emissions on UK roads by as much as 750,000 tonnes per year. This is the equivalent to taking 350,000 cars - or all the cars in North Yorkshire - off the road.
TO BE CLEAR
I am not against EV in any way, and as soon as the above is reasonably achievable, I will willingly and gladly jump to the EV over the ICE polluter, juat not yet.
You are correct in your statement, but unfortunately the overall average distance you quote is incomplete, which most people fall foul of as a figure.
In order to properly quote a median figure, statistically you need to indicate the mean displacement, which is the outliers mean at a given statistical interval, could be the CI (confidence interval, normally given as a percentage or a measure at + or - 2 standard deviations from that mean displacement.
Using your assumptions, without knowing the median displacement, is absolutely useless for forecasting EV usage.
As an example the average mileage in uk.
And yes I have done my research, these are not plucked out of thin air.
The average motorist in the United Kingdom drove up to 10,000 miles per year. In 2018, 35 percent of respondents stated that they drove between one to 5,000 miles annually, which was an increase compared to the year before. Mileage for private travel was highest when compared to other purposes, according to a governmental survey among British car drivers. In 2017, an average of roughly 4,500 miles were driven for private reasons.
| Average miles driven | 2017 | 2018 |
|---|---|---|
| 0-5,000 | 32% | 35% |
| 5,001-10,000 | 36% | 33% |
| >10,001 | 23% | 22% |
As this shows, if you don't account for users in the higher mileage bracket, you will then condemn nearly a quarter of motorists to the scenario that a lot of people against EV have, which is "Range Anxiety
This is easily resolved from two aspects.
EV with a Guaranteed Minimum range of 425 miles, not an up to figure, as we all know that the quoted MPG/MPCharge, even with the new WLTP assessment, still do not represent real life driving
A EV charging network structure that is comparable to wet fuel forecourt, ie plentiful and usable by 95% of vehicles, which also requires that a charging system is standardised across the network and that cars have just the one or two types of socket/plug Just as Petrol and Diesel are standardised.
Note Petrol to change in 2021
E10 petrol - a more eco-friendly type of petrol containing up to 10 per cent ethanol - will be available at fuel stations across the UK from September 2021 and become the default form of petrol, with the aim of reducing CO2 emissions.
The Department for Transport (DfT) announced the launch of E10 petrol following a consultation with motorists and the automotive industry. E10 - which is a mixture of standard petrol and ethanol made from materials including low grade grains, sugars and waste wood - is expected to cut CO2 emissions on UK roads by as much as 750,000 tonnes per year. This is the equivalent to taking 350,000 cars - or all the cars in North Yorkshire - off the road.
TO BE CLEAR
I am not against EV in any way, and as soon as the above is reasonably achievable, I will willingly and gladly jump to the EV over the ICE polluter, juat not yet.
selectortone
Still waking up not dead in the morning
I had a delivery from DPD the other day and the driver had an electric van. I asked him what he thought of it and he said he absolutely loved it. Better performance than his old diesel and much easier to drive with no gears. Much less stressful, just get in and press the accelerator. No range problems, delivering all day around the Bournemouth area.
Companies like Amazon and UPS are making massive investments in EVs, and electric buses are close to being on our streets in large numbers.
I wouldn't be surprised if a diesel generator charging a battery car was still more efficient than a gasoline powered vehicle (in miles per gallon).
RobinBHM
Established Member
Courier drivers often do huge numbers of drops but only cover a small area -the bigger problem is going to the hub to load and then going to the delivery area.
Ok I think I may have solved the issue for using electric vans for trade use, the answer was really obvious and could even be helpful onsite. All you need is a box trailer in which you have a generator that can keep the vehicle charged whilst on route and then onsite providing you have the right genny you also have a 110 volt power source. Now the trailer will also allow you to carry any extras as well and maybe even some 8by4 sheet materials if required.
I have yet to find a cabbie (in one, rather than driving a diesel and understandably worrying about the price of upgrading) who doesn't absolutely gush about them and say how much better it has made their lives from a comfort and financial perspective. On the other hand I haven't been in one since March last year so maybe all their batteries died.
That said about 150-180 miles is about their average mileage when I've asked about how charging fits in.
Cooper
Established Member
I'm afraid that I can't believe that faced with all the evidence that there is an acute emergency, even people who claim there is no climate emergency actually believe what they say. I'm sure they are just being provocative, to wind up those of us they describe as Woke. (Odd word, passed tense of to wake up, in other words: to be aware.)
That's a very odd view to have. As I said, I don't dispute that there are changes to our climate (natural or unnatural). I just don't think it's an emergency that justifies the response we are seeing. Innovation, not restriction is the key, improve the standard of living, don't diminish it.
I think that sums it up very well. Many of us are not against EV in principle but we don't think the vehicles and the infrastructure are good enough yet. When things improve many more people will be happy and able to make the change, but until then it would be folly to force the change on everyone. Actually there should be no need to force the change on anyone; if and when EVs become better than existing alternatives people will change without being forced to. Anyone who thinks it is OK to force this change on people should at least consider why it is so unattractive to so many.
What if instead of being put forward as a solution to global warming it was put forward as making the air we breathe cleaner and our cities nicer places? We locked down and paid people to sit at home for months to a year to save lives from COVID. How many lives could be saved due to respiratory problems caused by car fumes and cancers by carcinogenic particles? Is it a price worth paying?
Also, is the policy really about replacing all cars with electric or hydrogen? Or, is the policy simply about removing cars from the road and pushing people onto public transport as many local council policies have been long before the advent of electric cars?
The current electric grid has plenty of capacity for the electric cars charging at night (or as controlled by the power companies) as shown by John Ward... getting home from work and making tea is where the grid struggles.
Also, is the policy really about replacing all cars with electric or hydrogen? Or, is the policy simply about removing cars from the road and pushing people onto public transport as many local council policies have been long before the advent of electric cars?
The current electric grid has plenty of capacity for the electric cars charging at night (or as controlled by the power companies) as shown by John Ward... getting home from work and making tea is where the grid struggles.
No.
They have been doing this in China for a while now.
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