Disaster with a trend diamond stone

[Jake]

(My dmt have all retired due to baldness and unflatness)
Matt

Interesting. I'd send them back to DMT, as they guarantee the flatness. I can't see the steel/plastic would have warped or bent (absent abuse) so the age shouldn't be an issue.

They also have an open ended guarantee on quality generally, so I'd complain about the baldness too!

If you can't be bothered, I'll give you a fiver each inc p&p, and test their customer service myself, as I reckon they would come through.

For what it is worth, I reckon you would have to abuse a DMT to get it to go bald (at all), unless it is defective in the first place, which is a good reason for seeking a refund in my book. That might be overconfidence from having a good set of stones, I suppose.

I'm not so sure about the cheaper poly-crystalline stones, for which it sounds (if my sketchy understanding hold up) as if baldness would be easier to achieve by the crystals shearing off, without having to literally rip all the stones out of the nickel matrix. I mean, those nickel matrices last pretty well on angle grinder and tile saw blades, where they get a much, much, much harder time than anyone would give a bench stone.

 

[Shrubby]

Sorry jake - i've been down that route.The stones were returned and replaced several times and I sold the last replacement.
The flatness is the big issue . Cutting discs are I believe a different technology.Engineers will use diamond wheels on machinery(e.g. to sharpen tooling) maybe the same manufacturers do lapping plates?
The last few metalworkers I have met use Eze-Laps, perhaps they ignore all the marketing stuff
Still looking at solutions though
Regards Matt

 

[ivan]

I've had an eze lap polycrystaline 600 grit plate for about 15 years. The poly = multiple crystals, fracture to keep the stone sharp, or fracture and wear out quicker, according to who's telling the story. I've also a blue DMT of the same vintage. Both still cut well, although a nasty inclusion in a Stanley chisel gouged some tracks in the eze lap. This happened over 10 years ago but the plate has not deteriorated as a result.

 

[Jake]

Sorry jake - i've been down that route.The stones were returned and replaced several times and I sold the last replacement.

Ah shame, it would have been a nice test of their response to this kind of oft-talked about issue, given that I can't get mine to misbehave yet (touch wood). I read too much into your 'my dmts have all retired' I guess.

I'll check mine again at the weekend, but when I bought them, they were flat (as in really flat).

The flatness is the big issue .

Well, it has to be said that baldness would also be a massive issue for a sharpening stone!

discs are I believe a different technology.

In what way? Might well be so, but they are still diamonds in a nickel matrix.

Engineers will use diamond wheels on machinery(e.g. to sharpen tooling) maybe the same manufacturers do lapping plates?
The last few metalworkers I have met use Eze-Laps, perhaps they ignore all the marketing stuff

Maybe, or maybe they fall for someone else's, maybe they like the price, whatever. I've got nothing against them, just no experience of them. They have lots of satisfied customers as well, so maybe you'll have better luck with them.

 

[Gary M]

Hi
Quick update,
I returned the stone and got a replacement no problem (i thought)
So of course wanted to try out the new one straight away.
Using water this time, i proceeded to work on one of the marples chisels i use at work. Nice course grinding for all of about a minute then the cutting sound seemed to fade away :shock:
I cleaned off the stone to find that the diamonds have became a lot smoother.
Turning the stone i tried the fine side, it started to cut more aggressively than the course side was :shock: then it too seemed to become very smooth.
Now i know that diamonds bed in, but this is ridiculous. Surely they should cut much faster than an oilstone (which i normally use).
When i dry it off with a cloth i can hear the abrasive , but to the touch it feels very smooth on both sides, and it takes an age to get an edge of any sort.
I am not a happy camper :evil:
Trend have definitely gone way way down in my book :x
Cheers,
Gary.

 

[Hatherton_wood]

Diamond stones have always lost their cutting edge quite quickly for me. Just because diamonds are the hardest known material does not mean that they wont wear out. I've always had better results with wet and dry paper stuck to glass plate - cheap and lots of grades to choose from

 

[Frank House]

There has been some discussion on Wood Central about diamonds applied to cast iron laps.

Advantages: diamond paste is cheap, diamonds embed in iron - not attached by nickel plating, renewable when cutting slows.

Disadvantages: lap needs to be flat, cast iron flats are expensive.

I have tried the technique on small V carving chisels with a wedge-shaped steel lap, seems promising. I am currently trying to flatten some cast iron frying pan bottoms - hard work but I hope to get there soon. Can be very cheap even new, pennies if you get lucky in a charity shop.

Old plane bottoms have been suggested.

Work in progress, I'll finish "real soon now", i.e. not this year .

Frank

 

[joiner_sim]

I have an EZE LAP diamond stone and have been using it now for about 3 years. Generally no problems.... Until earlier this year.... it seemed as if the stone wore away and I couldn't sharpen on half of the stone. Another joiner suggested wiping some white spirit on it. Problem solved.

 

[woodbloke]

I've got the green DMT extra fine stone and found that when new, the cut was very harsh, but after some bedding in, the stone works very well. When I run a finger across the matrix it feels as if there are no diamonds left...very smooth. The proof of course is in the pudding (or stone ) as it still cuts quite rapidly. Final micro-bevel though is done with a Spyderco 10000g ceramic - Rob

 

[ike]

I'l bet a pound to a penny that most problems with continuous diamond stones are simply due to clogging. At worst, some fluid and a wire brush will 'bring it back'. It's true that the 'bedding in' is the removal of the uppermost part of the nickel matrix - it's expected. Anyone concerned with a diamond plate more than 1/2 thou out of flatness - I think they have lost the perspective - completely.

 

[Chris Knight]

I think the mistake made by most folk new to this is to use diamond stones inappropriately. I'll bet a pound to a penny that the smooth feeling stones are still cutting - just not very fast. If you start with a clear fluid which becomes dark, that's the metal particles you are grinding away and shows the stone is indeed working.

The thing is to use a sufficiently coarse stone to do the early donkey work and then to use diamond stones for putting the edge on the tool. The coarse stone can be anything as long as it cuts quickly.

Preparing the edge, the goal is that any operation should remove scratches left by previous work ON THE EDGE - it's pointless to waste time worrying about the whole bevel.

When flattening chisel backs, the same thing applies except that in this case, you will want to remove scratches from most of the back - at least the first couple of inches back from the edge.

It is exactly analogous to the use of sandpaper on wood - you'd never use a 360 grit to start sanding a piece of rough wood, an 80 grit, 100, 120 180, 240 sequence might be followed with little time needed on each if you don't skip the intermediate grits. The bigger the grit jumps, the more time needed to remove scratches left by the coarser grades

 

[whoops!]

I bought a trend diamond stone a couple of years ago, after the first couple of sharpenings on it It went the way of the earlier photo's, i.e bald. I returned the stone and the replacement has been in frequent use both in the workshop and on site.

I always ensure that I thoroughly clean the stone with a rubber, and I only use the Trend honing fluid.The sharpening is not as quick as on my Tormek, but you cant lug a Tormek around on site.

On the whole really pleased with it after my initial disappointment , just as a matter of interest I use it with the Veritas mk2 honing guide- now that is a fab piece of kit!!! :lol:

Decklan

 

[simuk]

I am now sending back the DMT Dia Sharp 8000g stone that i purchased a couple months ago, as the nickel is peeling from the face of the stone, as well as nickle nodules breaking free.

Simon

 

[Mr Ed]

Interesting

I've just ordered the DMT extra extra fine stone, mainly on the basis that my DMT red/green stone has been fine for years.

Hope I don't have the problems other people are talking about!

Cheers, Ed

 

[wizer]

indeed, I will keep an eye on this. I received the XXC today.

 

[Benchwayze]

I am quite happy with diamond stones and mine is a few years old. I always use water as a lubricant, but I have to be sure to wipe it dry after use of course. Never had a problem and it is great for the initial flatting of chisel and iron backs.

I think mine is a DMT brand. Expensive when I bought it, which was around the time they first emerged onto the market.

Regards, John

 

[Derek Willis.]

Of course you must send it back, I have been using a variety of diamond stones for about 14yrs. with no problems whatsoever.
Derek.

 

[andy@trend]

Hi
Quick update,
I returned the stone and got a replacement no problem (i thought)
So of course wanted to try out the new one straight away.
Using water this time, i proceeded to work on one of the marples chisels i use at work. Nice course grinding for all of about a minute then the cutting sound seemed to fade away :shock:
I cleaned off the stone to find that the diamonds have became a lot smoother.
Turning the stone i tried the fine side, it started to cut more aggressively than the course side was :shock: then it too seemed to become very smooth.
Now i know that diamonds bed in, but this is ridiculous. Surely they should cut much faster than an oilstone (which i normally use).
When i dry it off with a cloth i can hear the abrasive , but to the touch it feels very smooth on both sides, and it takes an age to get an edge of any sort.
I am not a happy camper :evil:
Trend have definitely gone way way down in my book :x
Cheers,
Gary.

Hi Gary M,

If you are still having problems with your diamond stone, please contact our customer services department on 01923 212497.

There may have been a batch issue related to the time that your stone was purchased.

HTH

andy@trend

 

[davebray]

indeed, I will keep an eye on this. I received the XXC today.

Hi there Wizer,
I was thinking of getting an DMT extra extra coarse stone. How are you getting on with your new one?.

I've had a DMT extra fine (8x3 1200g) stone for about 3 years now and I've had no problems with nickel flaking off mine.
I've got a DMT blue/red (8x3) but I prefer using my EZELaps (250g, 400g, 600g).
Cheers
Dave

 

[wizer]

no probs so far. It removed material extremely quick, which is just what I needed.