Bloody Olympics

[devonwoody]

Jacob, you must be feeling on top of the world, all of that support of your rant, you have obviously turned the corner, keep up the good work.

I like bakewell tarts, I havent had one for a long time tho.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, you must be feeling on top of the world, all of that support of your rant, you have obviously turned the corner, keep up the good work. ...

I've not been keeping up - so long winded and boring. They are all agreeing with me then? Oh well - perhaps I got it wrong. :roll:

 

[Peter T]

[quote
So, more taxpayer funding of private companies.
Wonderful.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that their business has a chance to grow as a result - but it's not right that the rest of us are forced to invest in their company. It's not also all that fair for all their competitors who did not win (or perhaps, didn't bid for) the olympic contract and now are at a competitive disadvantage, having not had the taxpayers buy some shiny new machines for their company and also being unable to use the prestige of the olympic contract to their advantage.

I still think it should be held in Athens every year. The rest of us can't afford it and they could certainly do with the income it would bring them.

I just don't see why billions must be sunk into building brand new olympic facilities every 4 years.

Does anyone think the F.A. Cup has ever suffered from "going to Wembley" every year? Or that the World Cup suffers from using only existing stadia? Quite apart from anyone who dislikes football, it's fair to say neither have suffered a jot and that Wembley with the F.A. Cup is as much a part of the final as the football.
There's no reason to believe that focussing on making a repeating Athens olympiad better than any other could hope to be - without needing to spend but a fraction of the cost - or that it wouldn't gain the same "going to Wembley" atmosphere with "Athens" becoming as synonymous with the modern games as Olympia was with the ancient.[/quote]

This company had to go through a bidding process to get the work, and they won it fair and square over the competition. If other companies chose not to bid, that's their problem.

Don't get ME wrong. I think the whole Olympic thing is b0ll0cks. If it has to be staged at all, I'd much rather it was anywhere else in the world. BUT, if this money is going to be spent, then I'd rather see it go into manufacturing than into some puerile opening ceremony.

 

[Digit]

Oh well - perhaps I got it wrong.

No! You can not be serious! :lol:

Roy.

 

[Sawyer]

Mind you, to put my cyclist's hat on, at least London will gain a decent velodrome - at last.

Herne Hill is a fine venue, but having been built for the 1908 Olympics, it's hardly up to date.

It's a scandal that as probably the world's leading track cycling nation, Britain's capital lacks such a facility. (hammer)

 

[devonwoody]

It's a scandal that as probably the world's leading track cycling nation, Britain's capital lacks such a facility. (hammer)[/quote]


Come down to Paignton, Devon, ours is under 6 month old.

 

[Gary]

Jacob, you must be feeling on top of the world, all of that support of your rant, you have obviously turned the corner, keep up the good work.

I like bakewell tarts, I havent had one for a long time tho.

Surprised you've got time for any tarts, servicing all those Doris'at the art club.

 

[devonwoody]

Jacob, you must be feeling on top of the world, all of that support of your rant, you have obviously turned the corner, keep up the good work.

I like bakewell tarts, I havent had one for a long time tho.

Surprised you've got time for any tarts, servicing all those Doris'at the art club.

Now, now, envy will get you know where, get your a..e over here.

 

[Max Power]

Heres DW hard at work in his art class

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Only joking DW

 

[Jacob]

Mind you, to put my cyclist's hat on, at least London will gain a decent velodrome - at last.

Herne Hill is a fine venue, but having been built for the 1908 Olympics, it's hardly up to date.

It's a scandal that as probably the world's leading track cycling nation, Britain's capital lacks such a facility. (hammer)

Well yes if there was a value for money legacy it'd be worth it perhaps. But surely spending country wide on facilities for all would be much better value?
I'm all for velodromes and cycling facilities. Cycle paths in UK are cr/p, especially compared to Europe - worth spending a lot on, IMHO. Could get people off the settee just watching sport on the telly! Wouldn't miss the Tour though - the only sport TV I watch.

 

[BigShot]

........(or perhaps, didn't bid for) the olympic contract and now are at a competitive disadvantage, .....

You really do have a very weird sense of logic.

Let me get this straight...because a competitor decided not to bid for the business, somehow this is the fault of us staging the Olympics? Did I get that right?

Weird. So weird.

No, I don't; and no, you didn't get that right.
Whether or not they bid for an olympic contract is irrelevant. What's relevant is that the taxpayer has bought new machinery for a private company which now has a competitive edge it did not have before.
Remover the part in brackets and see how it reads (brackets denoting a side note or explanation and not the main point, but I'm guessing you knew that already ).


PeterT - rather it go to manufacturing than an opening ceremony (though this IS opening ceremony work so really, it did - no different than funding artists in that respect - the long term effect of the money spent on them may not be as obvious as buying new machines for a factory, but as someone who's known at least 2 or 3 people who performed in such a ceremony I can assure you there is a longer term impact than buying a single performance)... but whether the bidding process was fair and square doesn't come into the fact that a PRIVATE company has been given enough TAXPAYER money to buy TWO new machines AND produce the pieces they were contracted to. Unless they now only the only examples of those machines, the torches could have been bought for less than it is costing when you include TWO new machines... and the point about taxpayer money giving a private company a competitive advantage still applies.


Sawyer - that's one of the few things on which the North has better facilities than the south. The velodrome up here is meant to be pretty special. I've never been but I've heard good things.


Jacob - Much sooner see the price of a velodrome being spent on proper, Dutch-style segregated cycling facilities. That would have a REAL value-for-money legacy. A study in Denmark found that for every Kronor they spent on cycle infrastructure they saved FIVE in lost income and healthcare costs due to the related increase in cycling and the fitter population it produced.
There would be no olympics here if it was nationwide though... the IOC made it quite clear it was London or nothing. They weren't interested in a British (or even English) olympics.

 

[petermillard]

Much sooner see the price of a velodrome being spent on proper, Dutch-style segregated cycling facilities.

Couldn't agree more - anything to get the [lifted] off the road, lol! Wonder how much the cycling equivalent of Road Tax would have to be to pay for it though? :shock:

There would be no olympics here if it was nationwide though... the IOC made it quite clear it was London or nothing. They weren't interested in a British (or even English) olympics.

That should come as no surprise though - Olympic games are always hosted by a city; London, Beijing, Athens, Sydney etc.. etc..

Cheers, Pete

 

[Peter T]

PeterT - rather it go to manufacturing than an opening ceremony (though this IS opening ceremony work so really, it did - no different than funding artists in that respect - the long term effect of the money spent on them may not be as obvious as buying new machines for a factory, but as someone who's known at least 2 or 3 people who performed in such a ceremony I can assure you there is a longer term impact than buying a single performance)... but whether the bidding process was fair and square doesn't come into the fact that a PRIVATE company has been given enough TAXPAYER money to buy TWO new machines AND produce the pieces they were contracted to. Unless they now only the only examples of those machines, the torches could have been bought for less than it is costing when you include TWO new machines... and the point about taxpayer money giving a private company a competitive advantage still applies.

Your understanding of modern manufacturing methods appears to be almost as tenuous as your grasp of the English language!

The contract that was awarded for the torches was a negotiated amount of money to deliver a quantity of torches by a specified date. The Olympic committee did not say "OK, here's the contract for the torches, oh, and by the way we threw in an extra million so you could buy some machines".

The contract amount is the contract amount. How the company chooses to spend the money is up to them, so long as they deliver the product on time and to an acceptable standard.

Perhaps you would prefer them to employ 100 tinsmiths, arm them with snips and a B&D and get them to produce all the torches by hand?

Oh, and then fire them all when the contract was completed.

 

[Jacob]

edited this - I don't seem to have posted anything :shock:

 

[BigShot]

Much sooner see the price of a velodrome being spent on proper, Dutch-style segregated cycling facilities.

Couldn't agree more - anything to get the [lifted] off the road, lol! Wonder how much the cycling equivalent of Road Tax would have to be to pay for it though? :shock:

Road tax doesn't exist and hasn't exited for almost 75 years.. You'll be thinking of Vehicle Excise Duty, which applies to vehicles based on the pollution they cause.
Considering the revenue from VED doesn't even cover the cost of the motorways, and that most other roads are paid for and maintained by local authorities cyclists also pay more than their fair share - especially considering that bicycles don't damage the roads.

The point of segregated facilities is that there's a HUGE latent demand for them. Just like when you build more roads, more cars appear to fill them, the same is true for proper cycle facilities.
The segregation isn't for current cyclists - it's for the would-be cyclists who would like to ride but can't because it takes a certain character to feel comfortable riding a bike on roads where just about every day you ride you have some plank or other nearly running you off the road, pulling out in front of you or otherwise generally leaving you feel lucky to be alive.

I know that sounds like I missed the humour in your post - I didn't - but you raised some real points that have real answers.

 

[Jacob]

..
Road tax doesn't exist and hasn't exited for almost 75 years.. You'll be thinking of Vehicle Excise Duty, which applies to vehicles based on the pollution they cause.

Pedestrians don't pay "pavement tax" either

...
The point of segregated facilities is that there's a HUGE latent demand for them. Just like when you build more roads, more cars appear to fill them, the same is true for proper cycle facilities.
The segregation isn't for current cyclists - it's for the would-be cyclists who would like to ride but can't because it takes a certain character to feel comfortable riding a bike on roads where just about every day you ride you have some plank or other nearly running you off the road, pulling out in front of you or otherwise generally leaving you feel lucky to be alive....

Have a look at the Warrington Campaign for the state of cycle traffic management in Britain. Click on "Facility of the Month" and scroll down to the archive.

 

[BigShot]

The facility of the month is a long-time favourite site of mine.
Some of them bring tears to the eyes they are so funny.

We've got a blinder here. Shared pavement where the pedestrian side is pretty tight. The full width of the cyclist side is taken up by a JC Decaux 6-sheet. Options... run over (or become) a pedestrian... hit the billboard... ride out onto one of the busiest, craziest roads in the city.
Oddly, the opposite side of the same road has one of the best facilities in the whole city. Segregated, traffic light controlled, fantastic surface... and just a third of a mile long. (Apparently un-gritted in the winter too, which makes it pretty much lethal to anyone who rides more than that third of a mile and has been on ice-free roads for the journey leading up to that stretch.)

 

[Digit]

The point of segregated facilities is that there's a HUGE latent demand for them.

Not round here there isn't! In the last couple of years miles of them have been built and even the kids are picked up in cars from school.
Mind you we do have a few hills!

Roy.

 

[BigShot]

Where's that, Digit?
There aren't many major towns and cities in the UK that are genuinely too hilly for cycling.

The quality of the facilities does matter though. If there are miles and miles of disconnected token-gesture ones like the third of a mile long one here they are worthless as the majority of a journey won't be on the segregated network.
Similarly if they are along A-Roads they are borderline useless for all but those who are willing and able to ride long distances... and unless people can cut their teeth on shorter, local journeys first that's simply not going to happen.

Lack of safe and (where possible) dry lock-up facilities at the destination is an issue too...
...as is the treating of cycling as a "sport" or something that needs special clothes, shoes and hats (it doesn't). A quick look at the Copenhagen Cycle Chic blog will give a good example of what I consider appropriate cycling attire.

With some thought put into them, segregated facilities can be a very alluring bit of infrastructure though.

We need to build them so as and when people decide to try it, it's available for them. The price of fuel isn't going down any time soon, public transport is generally at capacity anyway. Cycling is inevitable, but without the facilities to keep new and nervous riders away from maniacs in cars, busses and vans (typically not lorries in my experience) who think they own the road the change will never happen, congestion will worsen and public transport will become utterly intolerable.

 

[Digit]

Use Google street map Bigshot and use post code SA43 1SJ, I live at the bottom of the valley and only the local cycling club rides out of the valley, even you keen tourists get off and push! Trust me.
Till surgery 4 yrs ago I was the only cyclist in the village, now there are none!
Mind you BS, Cardigan hardly rates as a major town or city! :lol:

Roy.