Beginning to use hardwoods

[BrandonB]

Hi all,
I am writing this to ask for your advice and experience with working with hardwoods. I am currently using alot of MRMDF products for my installs for various things such as shaker doors, floating shelves and other minor bits and pieces.
I would like to start offering hardwood components with my installs and would most likely be using the lighter hardwoods such as tulip, ash, beech. I would like to offer hardwood doors (stiles and rails) made using tulip as I feel this is a much better standard, if the budget allows for it. I generally use 22mm MRMDF (stiles and rails) which works fine for medium/smaller doors, but for larger doors I would like to be able to offer solid stiles and rails as I feel the quality is much better.

The items I would be using the hardwood for would be generally be for the smaller items such as stiles and rails for shaker doors, solid frontals for shelves etc. Nothing major like windows or full height doors etc.

What would be the first step equipment wise you would invest in? I'm thinking a thicknesser, as I have a plunge saw which I can use to gain a straight edge to start working from.

What are some of the golden rules with using hardwoods? - Am I right in thinking you need to leave the timber to adjust after planing it from raw timber as the moisture content is still quite high? What are some of the do's and don't when working with 'real' timber?

Thanks!

 

[TRITON]

What are some of the golden rules with using hardwoods?

Keep your tools sharp.

If you aren't sure how best to do that, why not open a thread about it asking for techniques and recommendations.

 

[D_W]

If you'll be doing a bunch of doors, it sounds like you should start looking at shapers, and if you don't have a thicknesser or combination machine to get hardwood prepped, you'll need that.

I'm all for doing everything by hand, but it sounds like you're trying to run a business and you'll need to be able to work quickly on boring jobs whether it's monday at 10am or wednesday at 9pm.

 

[D_W]

Scratch a little mentioned above - I see you don't mean interior or entry doors. You can do everything at first a million ways. I think you'll still end up wanting a shaper.

I have done doors with a large router in the past (I've also done them absolutely entirely by hand from rough stock), but not sure I'd want to be on a timeline trying to push ash doors through a router in huge volumes.

As important as anything is the ability to find a supplier that has good quality stock that takes a profile cleanly off of machines and that doesn't move much with temp and humidity changes.

 

[Ttrees]

Presumably you've got adequate power supply for extraction aswell as whatever machines you choose, and space for it, plus transport to take whatever timbers you choose to work with?
How about access to metalwork tooling locally, and finding everything as you go
Just pointing out it's hard for anyone to give an answer, as this topic kinda hints at all
sorts involving logistics,
and no idea what the timescale nor idea of whether time to work on old machines is a factor or not.
There's an interesting fella on instagram in the UK with a lineshaft setup and reckons the spindle is if not the most important.
I'd say depending on your supplier, whether you can get thin enough stock for panels
might make one choose between having saws or a PT.

 

[Jacob]

..... Am I right in thinking you need to leave the timber to adjust after planing it from raw timber as the moisture content is still quite high?

Not if you buy dry wood but you never know - be prepared for surprises!

What are some of the do's and don't when working with 'real' timber?

Thanks!

Just get stuck in. Be prepared to waste some wood as there is a learning curve!
There are many easier woods than beech and ash.
If you are painting then you might as well use redwood (Scots Pine) widely available.

 

[TRITON]

If you are painting then you might as well use redwood (Scots Pine) widely available.

That shouldn't be a given, to look towards a softer or lesser timber just because its being painted.

 

[Spectric]

If you are painting then you might as well use redwood (Scots Pine) widely available.

I can see the logic because I thought the same until I made some wall paneling in Sapelle, even if painted it gives a different look and no knots, plus it is very nice to work with in that it cuts cleaner than redwood, the downside is that it cost more.

 

[Doug71]

The most economical way to buy hardwoods is rough sawn so I would say the minimum you need is a planer thicknesser and a bandsaw.

Ideally cut everything slightly oversize and leave indoors for as long as possible before planing to finished size.

Tulipwood is a bit of a standard for painted furniture, it's quite stable, machines well and is easy to get a good finish on.

Don't worry about using MDF, I know purists don't like it but for painted stuff it takes some beating, very stable and much easier and cheaper to deal with than solid wood.

In the next few weeks I'm making some folding internal shutters for a customers bay windows (which will be painted) and they want them in solid wood. I'm making them out of Accoya, probably the most expensive option initially but if I make them out of something else and in a few weeks one of the stiles bends suddenly Accoya was cheaper option.

Real wood is nice but it's a whole different ball game to MDF.

 

[baldkev]

Theres good info above, depending how you buy you timber, a bandsaw / tablesaw, planer thicknesser and ideally a small spindle moulder would be the way forward. What workspace do you have?

In terms of timber, you need to look at grain patterns and end grain to start to build a pucture of how it might move in the future if it is exposed to differing moisture levels. And you'll soon see how machining a piece of timber can screw it up

Wood often holds internal tension, depending on where in the tree it was and joiners i know often make sure to check straightness by eye every time it runs through the thicknesser as a piece can easier start to bend when the tension is changed by taking material off one side. I cut a straight 6x3 of oak in half and the 2 3x3s were both totally bent when the came out the other end of the tablesaw

 

[HOJ]

My initial consideration would be where you can buy stock from, and in what form its sold, some suppliers will machine & supply to size, others in sawn stock, and with a minimum volume for delivery, one of my suppliers will deliver, but I need to buy a minimum of 0.5M3 (although that can be mix of stock sizes/species)

For painted pieces I use Sycamore as well as Tulip wood.

 

[rogxwhit]

What would be the first step equipment wise you would invest in? I'm thinking a thicknesser, as I have a plunge saw which I can use to gain a straight edge to start working from.

What are some of the golden rules with using hardwoods? - Am I right in thinking you need to leave the timber to adjust after planing it from raw timber as the moisture content is still quite high? What are some of the do's and don't when working with 'real' timber?

What you need to start with in wood prep from sawn is the production of a reference face. You won't get that from a plunge saw, which will follow any wind in the board. The first machining (after any rough dimensioning) is surface planing - this gives a straight, flat surface. Then off you go onto edging and thicknessing. Thus you need a planer-thicknesser. The world is built on logic, and it's no good thinking you can wing it.

 

[rogxwhit]

shapers

That'll be spindle moulders, then ... on a UK forum ...

 

[Jacob]

........ I cut a straight 6x3 of oak in half and the 2 3x3s were both totally bent when the came out the other end of the tablesaw

This is why it's essential to saw to size (length, width, depth, + allowance for planing loss) according to the cutting list, before planing. And always work through the cutting list from longest pieces first.

 

[Daniel2]

That'll be spindle moulders, then ... on a UK forum ...

I think, but happy to be corrected, that what Americans call a shaper
is what the English know as a surface planer.

 

[rogxwhit]

On that basis anything's possible. Maybe they call a saw a kettle? I wonder what they call a muntin?

 

[D_W]

That'll be spindle moulders, then ... on a UK forum ...

That'd be it. Like a giant router table.

 

[Daniel2]

My bad, sorry.
I was confusing it with a jointer.

 

[Adam W.]

Snip/

What are some of the golden rules with using hardwoods? - Am I right in thinking you need to leave the timber to adjust after planing it from raw timber as the moisture content is still quite high? What are some of the do's and don't when working with 'real' timber?

/snip

Sounds like you have a bit of a steep learning curve ahead.

The first rule is: Know your wood - timber conversion and species characteristics.....That should keep you busy for a while.

 

[rogxwhit]

What are some of the golden rules with using hardwoods? - Am I right in thinking you need to leave the timber to adjust after planing it from raw timber as the moisture content is still quite high? What are some of the do's and don't when working with 'real' timber?

I can't think of anything particular to hardwoods. Wood is wood. The greater volume of boards carried by merchants is likely to have been kilned and will have a certain moisture content. That's not to say that it will have been kilned well, or that its moisture content will be even, or what the moisture content will be. So it's a bit experimental. A moisture meter could give some clues.

When removing material by sawing & planing you are intruding on both the grain structure and possibly the moisture profile, and either of these can lead to movement either fairly immediately, or worse in further use. So you need to be alert. The best tutor is experience. And how is that acquired? By doing ...