Axminster search facility

[Flynnwood]

"Search" (in this case) is about how MySQL is constructed (it is a relational database) and about how tables / cols are assigned importance / relationships based on user queries.

Example:

INSERT INTO books VALUES (1,'First Book',NULL);
INSERT INTO books VALUES (2,'Second Book',NULL);
INSERT INTO books VALUES (3,'Third Book',NULL);

INSERT INTO keywords VALUES (1,'keyword1',NULL);
INSERT INTO keywords VALUES (2,'keyword2',NULL);
INSERT INTO keywords VALUES (3,'keyword3',NULL);

INSERT INTO book_keywords VALUES (1,1,1);
INSERT INTO book_keywords VALUES (2,2,1);
INSERT INTO book_keywords VALUES (3,2,2);
INSERT INTO book_keywords VALUES (4,3,1);
INSERT INTO book_keywords VALUES (5,3,2);
INSERT INTO book_keywords VALUES (6,3,3);

mysql> select * from books;
+---------+-------------+-----------+
| book_id | title | sub_title |
+---------+-------------+-----------+
| 1 | First Book | NULL |
| 2 | Second Book | NULL |
| 3 | Third Book | NULL |
+---------+-------------+-----------+
3 rows in set (0.00 sec)

mysql> select * from keywords;
+------------+----------+-------+
| keyword_id | keyword | notes |
+------------+----------+-------+
| 1 | keyword1 | NULL |
| 2 | keyword2 | NULL |
| 3 | keyword3 | NULL |
+------------+----------+-------+
3 rows in set (0.00 sec)

mysql> select * from book_keywords;
+-----------------+---------+------------+
| book_keyword_id | book_id | keyword_id |
+-----------------+---------+------------+
| 1 | 1 | 1 |
| 2 | 2 | 1 |
| 3 | 2 | 2 |
| 4 | 3 | 1 |
| 5 | 3 | 2 |
| 6 | 3 | 3 |
+-----------------+---------+------------+
6 rows in set (0.00 sec)

The following gets all books containing at least those two
keywords:

SELECT b.book_id, b.title
FROM books b,
book_keywords bk1,
book_keywords bk2,
keywords k1,
keywords k2
WHERE bk1.book_id = b.book_id
AND bk1.keyword_id = k1.keyword_id
AND k1.keyword = 'keyword1'
AND bk2.book_id = b.book_id
AND bk2.keyword_id = k2.keyword_id
AND k2.keyword = 'keyword2'

+---------+-------------+
| book_id | title |
+---------+-------------+
| 2 | Second Book |
| 3 | Third Book |
+---------+-------------+
2 rows in set (0.01 sec)

Just an example of what should be happening in 2014 on a commercial site ....

 

[scrimper]

Afraid that is all Double-Dutch to me? Might as well be in Chinese!

 

[pcb1962]

As an experiment I tried finding a bench brush, a "bench brush", a "Bench Brush" etc all with no luck at all until I stumbled on a picture that looked something like it. This turned out to be called a "Professional Dusting Brush"

Searching google with "site:axminster.co.uk bench brush" returns that one as the fourth result.
Might as well not bother with Axminster's search at all.

 

[woodfarmer]

Rhossydd
It is a long time since I was at primary school
I chose 1980 as the start of personal computers and databases rather than just on line commerce

You are a bit late. I built my first computer in 1979. Although I did have to re write the bios and parts of the OS to cope with DS and DD floppy disk drives but ran Dbase on it as well as a "c" compiler, basic and assembler... Spent months exploring the adventure caves

 

[RogerS]

Rhossydd
It is a long time since I was at primary school
I chose 1980 as the start of personal computers and databases rather than just on line commerce

You are a bit late. I built my first computer in 1979. Although I did have to re write the bios and parts of the OS to cope with DS and DD floppy disk drives but ran Dbase on it as well as a "c" compiler, basic and assembler... Spent months exploring the adventure caves

Talk about coming to the party late :wink:

I built my first computer in 1975 when the Motorola 6800 came out

 

[RogerP]

Rhossydd
It is a long time since I was at primary school
I chose 1980 as the start of personal computers and databases rather than just on line commerce

You are a bit late. I built my first computer in 1979. Although I did have to re write the bios and parts of the OS to cope with DS and DD floppy disk drives but ran Dbase on it as well as a "c" compiler, basic and assembler... Spent months exploring the adventure caves

Talk about coming to the party late :wink:

I built my first computer in 1975 when the Motorola 6800 came out

Nah, you're all beginners I had my first computer in 1944.

It was ten balls that slid along a string hanging in my pram.

 

[Rhossydd]

As an experiment I tried finding a bench brush, a "bench brush", a "Bench Brush" etc all with no luck at all until I stumbled on a picture that looked something like it. This turned out to be called a "Professional Dusting Brush"

Searching google with "site:axminster.co.uk bench brush" returns that one as the fourth result.
Might as well not bother with Axminster's search at all.

If you know what you want, a dusting brush, that item is the first item offered by their search engine.

What's the problem here ? Axminster not calling their goods what others expect ? or their search engine not being psychic enough ?

 

[PAC1]

As an experiment I tried finding a bench brush, a "bench brush", a "Bench Brush" etc all with no luck at all until I stumbled on a picture that looked something like it. This turned out to be called a "Professional Dusting Brush"

Searching google with "site:axminster.co.uk bench brush" returns that one as the fourth result.
Might as well not bother with Axminster's search at all.

If you know what you want, a dusting brush, that item is the first item offered by their search engine.

What's the problem here ? Axminster not calling their goods what others expect ? or their search engine not being psychic enough ?

Brilliant. Then if they put the index on the web we would not need the search facility

 

[RogerS]

As Axminster are advertising for a web developer, perhaps we should put forward Rhossydd for the role as he seems to have all the answers.

 

[dc_ni]

As Axminster are advertising for a web developer, perhaps we should put forward Rhossydd for the role as he seems to have all the answers.

+1

 

[srp]

As Axminster are advertising for a web developer, perhaps we should put forward Rhossydd for the role as he seems to have all the answers.

Or maybe not. If the first response from our resident expert had been a list of helpful hints and tips then I might agree with you, but the exhortation to learn how to search properly doesn't really cut the mustard.

The fact remains that any on-line shop has to make things easy for their customers, and most shop search facilities are really pretty poor when it comes to the average Joe customer. I'm afraid that the average Joe is not interested in the finer points of internet searching, and the average techie has no clue about how to deal with this rather uncomfortable fact.

 

[woodfarmer]

Rhossydd
It is a long time since I was at primary school
I chose 1980 as the start of personal computers and databases rather than just on line commerce

You are a bit late. I built my first computer in 1979. Although I did have to re write the bios and parts of the OS to cope with DS and DD floppy disk drives but ran Dbase on it as well as a "c" compiler, basic and assembler... Spent months exploring the adventure caves

Talk about coming to the party late :wink:

I built my first computer in 1975 when the Motorola 6800 came out

At the time I thought the Nat semi chipset would be the one to go for. true 32 bit, all instructions took one clock cycle. Would have been ideal as it was a clocked state machine. Never liked the 6800 onwards which all had "fall through" logic. even considered the2909 daisy chainable 4 bit chipset as at the time was working with a 24 bit mainframe. Never liked the 8008 or 8080 with the two phase clocks so ended up using a z80 at 3Mhz with no wait states which was faster than running it at 4 Mhz with one wait state. ( for the slow memory at the time),

 

[Newbie_Neil]

The fact remains that any on-line shop has to make things easy for their customers, and most shop search facilities are really pretty poor when it comes to the average Joe customer. I'm afraid that the average Joe is not interested in the finer points of internet searching, and the average techie has no clue about how to deal with this rather uncomfortable fact.

+1, you're spot on.

I gave up trying to find something on Axi earlier today and ended up buying it from DM!!

 

[bg]

A while back, a decade perhaps, one could use Axminster without needing a search engine as sensible classifications and sub classifications worked OK. Well as far as I remember anyway. The classification of items into sensible categories should meant finding an item is quick and easy. Say I want a festool centronic forstner router bit. I should be able to find this by several routes. Machine Tools > Routers > Router Bits > Forstner or Machine Tools > Routers > Router Bits > Festool or Festool > Routers > Router Bits etc. Stuff the search engines, just classify every item in sensible ways include the manufacturer etc, and then with 2 or 3 click I should be presented with a list of manageable proportions. The whole point is I used to be happy to use the Axminster site, and now I find it a pain and indeed as others have gone elsewhere. (no Axminster I do NO want a seemingly random list if I type in Festool, I then want to be asked to click on a suitable category and sub category before a list is presented - CLICK CLICK CLICK. = Sale.

 

[AndyT]

A while back, a decade perhaps, one could use Axminster without needing a search engine as sensible classifications and sub classifications worked OK. Well as far as I remember anyway. The classification of items into sensible categories should meant finding an item is quick and easy. Say I want a festool centronic forstner router bit. I should be able to find this by several routes. Machine Tools > Routers > Router Bits > Forstner or Machine Tools > Routers > Router Bits > Festool or Festool > Routers > Router Bits etc. Stuff the search engines, just classify every item in sensible ways include the manufacturer etc, and then with 2 or 3 click I should be presented with a list of manageable proportions. The whole point is I used to be happy to use the Axminster site, and now I find it a pain and indeed as others have gone elsewhere. (no Axminster I do NO want a seemingly random list if I type in Festool, I then want to be asked to click on a suitable category and sub category before a list is presented - CLICK CLICK CLICK. = Sale.

You can still navigate the Axi search by categories. In your example, one successful way is to click on Power Tools, then select Festool as the brand, then Drills, Drivers and Screwdrivers, then Drill Bits. Four clicks to get to a page with the centrotec Forstner bits. No need to use the search box if you don't want to.

 

[DonJohnson]

Well, I built my CompuKit 101 in the early 70's, taught myself BASIC and 6502 Assembler, programmed BBCs, PETS and Z80s (with a cold bottle of milk on top), managed systems at work - starting with a Burroughs punched card system (which had a 2K hard disk! that started up like an aeroplane!), then systems running unix and COBOL, aix and Informix - wrote systems to run manufacturing and commerce for my company, retired and now play around with a number of websites for friends and charities, but I couldn't find a 'Bench saw' on Axminster :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Admittedly, that was about a year ago, and it seems a bit better now, but thanks for the Google search tip.

 

[AndyT]

I couldn't find a 'Bench saw' on Axminster[/color] :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Admittedly, that was about a year ago, and it seems a bit better now, but thanks for the Google search tip.

Now I don't actually know what you mean by a 'bench saw' but if you put that in the search box on the axi site it takes you to a selection of 'saw benches' - small powered circular saws either to sit on a bench or on a stand.

Alternatively, drill down through Woodworking>sawing>saw benches.

Is that what you were looking for?

 

[DonJohnson]

Oops! I mis-typed in my post, I actually searched for 'Table Saw'

As I said, this was some time ago, and I did eventually find what I was looking for, but not easily - which is the point made by the OP.

 

[Rhossydd]

As Axminster are advertising for a web developer, perhaps we should put forward Rhossydd for the role as he seems to have all the answers.

Or maybe not. If the first response from our resident expert had been a list of helpful hints and tips then I might agree with you,

I'm an expert ????
If you read my first comment here I pointed out that using quotation marks will greatly increase the quality of the results. This is hardly arcane, 'expert' knowledge, it's one of the the most basic tools used in search engines in IT.
OK, given one correspondent here couldn't even manage to search for anything with the word router in when looking for router cutters, just how simple does advice here need to be ?

but the exhortation to learn how to search properly doesn't really cut the mustard.

Why ? Things are so much easier if you know what you're doing and not blundering about by trial and error.

 

[srp]

If you read my first comment here I pointed out that using quotation marks will greatly increase the quality of the results. This is hardly arcane, 'expert' knowledge

Things are so much easier if you know what you're doing and not blundering about by trial and error.

You didn't actually 'point it out'. You typed the search term inside quote marks in underlined text but didn't explain what effect that has. If you're trying to educate dummies like me you have to explicitly state that search terms must be wrapped in quotes, and also not confuse the issue by using underlined text. A complete beginner could easily have either missed the significance of the quotes, or assumed that underlining was necessary. You also failed to mention other operators that could be used to refine a search.

It is also significant that search facilities on shop sites work slightly differently to the way Google operates. Although quote marks and other operators are recognised, Google seems to manage happily without them and delivers accurate results if I type bench brush without the quotes. In fact, it delivers exactly the same results if I also type it with the quotes. Most of us use Google many times every day, so it is absolutely reasonable to expect Axminsters search box to behave in the same way. If Axminster can't or won't make that happen then they will lose custom to someone with a better site.

My point is that if you wish to criticise someone's quite valid observation on the shortcomings of Axminsters search facility you should have responded with some helpful tips instead of being slightly scornful of their lack of knowledge.