anyone run their own design and manuf furniture co.

[Zeddedhed]

There is an old adage that advice that you get for free is worth exactly what you pay for it.

I believe that's a saying bandied around by business consultants to justify their ludicrous fees and constant suggestions of suicide-inducing team building exercises.

When I had my own company (construction) we were persuaded to appoint a firm of management consultants to assist us with planning for growth etc etc.

My partner and I sat through meeting after meeting listening to these two guys (both failed businessmen it turned out) talking incessantly in a language all of their own. When one analysed the content of these epic speeches it came down to: Increase revenue and reduce costs. - GENIUS!! We almost got conned out of £12,000 for the pleasure of their company.
They only started speaking english when we refused to pay.

We never did pay, but we gave them some advice - get your money up front.

 

[Jacob]

.....

Then, are you "comfortable" to compete with the big manufacturers and suppliers?

You wouldn't attempt to compete with big manufacturers you would be looking for a niche which they don't cover too well. e.g. take IKEA designs (which is their strength)but make up-market versions (their stuff is tacky and cheap)

This sort of sums it up as my design philosophy maybe a little more sunday roast tad less meatballs perhaps

Churlish to ask stupid questions and then take the p|ss out of the answers.

Can we see a photo or two of the products of your "design philosophy" or is it all in your imagination?

 

[sawdust1]

I'm with jacob some pics would be nice, just to see what this venture is about, or are we discussing the best way to go about it when infact you have never made anything.

 

[navypaul]

I'm with jacob some pics would be nice, just to see what this venture is about, or are we discussing the best way to go about it when infact you have never made anything.

im not sure how to take that, ordinarily id be insulted but you dont know me from the next so ill let it go. when its up and running you can look on my website but as a idea here is a half completed frame for my sofa its the basic shape unglued.

and a tv table i made when i only had a router and a circular saw (and 3 clamps) in a small garage its just under 6ft long, soft close draws. made from a old worktop.

this is pretty old stuff the other things will be up the end of the year/beginning of next hopefully.

 

[Wuffles]

I'm with jacob some pics would be nice, just to see what this venture is about, or are we discussing the best way to go about it when infact you have never made anything.

im not sure how to take that, ordinarily id be insulted but you dont know me from the next so ill let it go. when its up and running you can look on my website but as a idea here is a half completed frame for my sofa its the basic shape unglued.

and a tv table i made when i only had a router and a circular saw (and 3 clamps) in a small garage its just under 6ft long, soft close draws. made from a old worktop.

this is pretty old stuff the other things will be up the end of the year/beginning of next hopefully.

I like the worktop made TV stand. Looks lovely. Had any sag issues on the top? 6ft span with only the ends supported seems long or is there some KFC special herbs and spices in there...or physics again, damn physics.

 

[navypaul]

.....

Then, are you "comfortable" to compete with the big manufacturers and suppliers?

[/quote]You wouldn't attempt to compete with big manufacturers you would be looking for a niche which they don't cover too well. e.g. take IKEA designs (which is their strength)but make up-market versions (their stuff is tacky and cheap)

This sort of sums it up as my design philosophy maybe a little more sunday roast tad less meatballs perhaps

[/quote]
Churlish to ask stupid questions and then take the p|ss out of the answers.

Can we see a photo or two of the products of your "design philosophy" or is it all in your imagination?[/quote]

ok whats a stupid question and whose taking the pineapple? are you saying i am asking stupid question and then taking the pineapple? if so then i REALLY want you to clarify as i agreed with you that it was sort of like ikea but a little less Scandinavian influence

i really cant see your argument for churlish remark.

 

[navypaul]

I like the worktop made TV stand. Looks lovely. Had any sag issues on the top? 6ft span with only the ends supported seems long or is there some KFC special herbs and spices in there...or physics again, damn physics.

physics governs everything but this is just really strong im 15 stone and i can stand in it with little deflection the joints help just understanding where the forces are their magnitude and direction then you can decide on the best joint

 

[doctor Bob]

How do you intend to tackle the minefield of fire regulations which comes with upholstered furniture, such as your sofa?

I have to say, I think this thread is total overkill, I thought you had a range of furniture going into large scale production. It seems I have misread the situation. If you are going to make it just set up a generic ecommerce site and give it a go.
The pictures don't really give any indication of quality, except to say the first image looks like it is made from block top worktop, therefore I'm afraid to say it is no going to command a decent price, I'll speak honestly it looks cheap, if you make out of laminated wood you are competing against oak furniture village (no veneer in here) and the like, you don't stand a chance.

Your choice of materials is misjudged in my opinion if you want to portray a quality product, yes blocktops are solid but ugly.

 

[Trigs]

I would think simple, quickly repeatable designs would be the way to go at first. Make 4-5 items and get em up for sale wherever you can. One thing with online it can be difficult for your webpage to be found at first until people are regularly searching it.

Normally I'd give you loads of grief for being a matelot, but I'll save it for another thread. Just go for it mate, sounds like you've made your mind up already and are looking for confirmation. Life's too short.

Per mare per teram
Trigs

 

[navypaul]

Normally I'd give you loads of grief for being a matelot, but I'll save it for another thread. Just go for it mate, sounds like you've made your mind up already and are looking for confirmation. Life's too short.

Per mare per teram
Trigs

!!!! grief for being the Queens Favourite?!?!?!? which one then pongo or even worse, crab? please dont say crab. you spelled matleot right so yr not army. oh the banter. i miss it talking to civvies.

just looking for advice thats all, lost of areas i am unfamiliar with. seemed to escalate a bit. your right its going ahead with some now direction form the posters. cheers guys.

 

[Trigs]

Even worse a Bootneck

 

[navypaul]

How do you intend to tackle the minefield of fire regulations which comes with upholstered furniture, such as your sofa?

I have to say, I think this thread is total overkill, I thought you had a range of furniture going into large scale production. It seems I have misread the situation. If you are going to make it just set up a generic ecommerce site and give it a go.
The pictures don't really give any indication of quality, except to say the first image looks like it is made from block top worktop, therefore I'm afraid to say it is no going to command a decent price, I'll speak honestly it looks cheap, if you make out of laminated wood you are competing against oak furniture village (no veneer in here) and the like, you don't stand a chance.

Your choice of materials is misjudged in my opinion if you want to portray a quality product, yes blocktops are solid but ugly.

fire regs aren't too bad ive dealt with them before

im sorry if i misled anyone i never mentioned large scale anywhere and without reading through them i think i said in a few posts slow or small or something like that. it would be suicide to even attempt to start anything large scale with my experience which is why i wrote this thread in the first place.

There have been many who have given me food for thought and the info to point me in the direction i think i need to go. To them my thanks.

you are right it is a worktop it was salvaged too, it is not something i would sell or attempt to market it was what was available back then. i fell in to a trap of feeling i need to justify my designs to someone and that p1ssed me off. the only person i need to justify or prove anything to is me (and my wife/boss) it was an old pic of something i made ages ago, its not the best quality but i had limitations then. i dont do it as a permanent job im an aircraft engineer, but this is where i want to.

i dont use worktops except in my kitchen (and that one thing) i dont use veneers anywhere. the other things i have made are mostly tropicals. im doing it again, justifying.

i thank you all for the advice and if you have the interest my site should be up in the new year, ultimately its the customers who decide.

regards
paul

 

[navypaul]

Even worse a Bootneck

my god yr a wannabe navy, id ask what section but opsec wont let me i work with you guys a lot in my job and mostly enjoy it. as we are sort of brothers i find it amazing the huge void between us (forces not actually) you do alot of our training and there is a huge comms barrier, funny at times.

higgi

 

[Adam9453]

Meetings can be great but if unchecked can be just as wasteful as discussing business on an internet forum lol

thats ok its only my future

Paul, please don't take my comment personally, it wasn't aimed at you.
I have been interested in your posts because I think it's the aim for most of us part time woodworkers.
It's just there a few too many procrastinators spouting doom and gloom because they're afraid to try it themselves.
Those who have taken the plunge have offered great advice.
It all just seems to be getting rehashed and argued over now.
One thing I would say though is regardless of anything that has been said don't ever let a forum dictate your future to you.
If you want to do it then just do it, you'll make mistakes but just try not to make the same mistakes twice.
Good luck and I sincerely hope you succeed.

Adam

 

[navypaul]

Meetings can be great but if unchecked can be just as wasteful as discussing business on an internet forum lol

thats ok its only my future[/quote]

Paul, please don't take my comment personally, it wasn't aimed at you.
I have been interested in your posts because I think it's the aim for most of us part time woodworkers.
It's just there a few too many procrastinators spouting doom and gloom because they're afraid to try it themselves.
Those who have taken the plunge have offered great advice.
It all just seems to be getting rehashed and argued over now.
One thing I would say though is regardless of anything that has been said don't ever let a forum dictate your future to you.
If you want to do it then just do it, you'll make mistakes but just try not to make the same mistakes twice.
Good luck and I sincerely hope you succeed.


cheers buddy

honestly i didnt expect the reaction i got for this thread, i cant explain it, i wont call it negativity but there seems to be a lot of well you said it doom and gloom for want of a better term. dont get me wrong i got a lot of good info and you cant have good without the bad but there seemed to be more than i anticipated.

yeah regardless only 2 ppl dictate my future none of them on here. i think your post got lost in translation which can happen with the written word i dont take it personally but your right it has taken a bit of a turn now. i hope others have got something from it also.

thanks again
paul
Adam[/quote]

 

[Ali]

Just go for it mate, as long as you don't lose the roof over your head or your marriage give it a shot. Life is too short for regrets.

8) 8) 8)

 

[tomatwark]

Paul

Read the regs for upholstered furniture before you start going done that route, the right materials and labelling etc.

I would also find out how much making upholstered furniture will push up your liability insurance up before you start, it may make upholstered stuff unprofitable at the start, until you have got yourself up and running with other furniture.

Don't rule out using veneered products, there is nothing wrong with them and if you are thinking along the lines tropical timbers a mix of veneer and solid is the usual way and has been for a couple of hundred years.

On thing I don't think has been raised, is pricing.

I know you intend to start up in your garage, but there are problems here, one is space, experience says you will quickly run out of it and also while your neighbours are tolerant with you woodworking as a hobby, they may not be so once you are working full time and into the evening to meet deadlines.

This means when you are working your selling prices out, you need to allow your prices to reflect the cost of business premises.

Others have said you do not need to register for VAT, this is correct, however as you are thinking of a web based business it may be worth thinking about, one because to the punter on the web it makes you look bigger and more credible, they don't know you form Adam and when you register your prices go up overnight and with no extra profit for you.

Then main reason for considering the cost of business premises and vat in you selling prices from the start is, when you need to expand, the pricing structure is based the correct overheads.

To suddenly have to put your prices up to cover expansion and vat could put you out of business over night.

Go for it, you are obviously keen, but keep and eye on the costs and if it is not working there is no shame in walking away.

 

[Jacob]

.....

Then, are you "comfortable" to compete with the big manufacturers and suppliers?

You wouldn't attempt to compete with big manufacturers you would be looking for a niche which they don't cover too well. e.g. take IKEA designs (which is their strength)but make up-market versions (their stuff is tacky and cheap)

This sort of sums it up as my design philosophy maybe a little more sunday roast tad less meatballs perhaps

Churlish to ask stupid questions and then take the p|ss out of the answers.

Can we see a photo or two of the products of your "design philosophy" or is it all in your imagination?

ok whats a stupid question and whose taking the pineapple? are you saying i am asking stupid question and then taking the pineapple? if so then i REALLY want you to clarify as i agreed with you that it was sort of like ikea but a little less Scandinavian influence

i really cant see your argument for churlish remark.

Must be the way you say it then.

 

[Emanuel]

you would be looking for a niche which they don't cover too well.

=D>

 

[AJB Temple]

Paul

There is a lot of good advice here if you get rid of all the banter and fluff. As I may have said earlier I am not in the wood business, but I have built up to scale and sold several businesses in different fields (for example fourth party logistics, property development, and currently specialised financial services) so I have an idea of the challenges you face. Most people that I see discussing this kind of thing on forums are very focussed on making stuff. They enjoy the woodwork, they may well be skilled at it too. However, bear in mind that being good at woodwork is just a core attribute for your business. It will not succeed just because you a re a good woodworker (though it will certainly fail if you are not) - it will succeed because you have put the thought and planning into the other things that are essential. Your business plan must deal with with your route to market, distribution, financing working capital, a financial buffer and so on. Internet free consultancy (as on this thread) can only do so much - you must develop or find other business skills.

I made a somewhat trite remark earlier in this thread about needing a payment mechanism for on-line sales and you responded that there are loads available. The point I was really making is that people make this assumption, but if you have never actually done e-commerce (I have) then it is not as easy to make work effectively as you might think. It will consume a lot of your time. You must spend time understanding how they work, when you will actually get your money, what it will cost you to set up, integrate and then run operationally, how you will deal with chargebacks and so on. Every facet of a proper scalable business needs planning.

This of course depends on whether you are interested in developing a business, or just a replacement for a job. There is a big difference. Lots of people do the latter: they are self employed and earn something broadly similar to what they could make working for someone else, but have the risk and satisfaction of "being their own boss". This generates income but hardly ever accumulates capital value. If you want a business that will achieve value (and make you well off) then it must be scaleable. My perspective on business is to employ people to do the work, grow the business to scale and then sell it for its capital value and future growth potential that others think they can exploit or integrate. I am not interested in salary - I am interested in building up a business to sell, not products to sell.

I make this point because it is crucial they you are clear form the outset what it is you are trying to achieve. To put it in context my uncle is a very skilled painter and decorator. He was also a college lecturer on this subject. He ran a business with his brother for 40 years and they sometimes had a few staff. He earned his living from it but when he wanted to retire the business was worthless. This is because it was all about him: he and his brother were always on the tools and once they were gone there was nothing of substance left. So be clear whether you are a carpenter or a businessman and choose your path. Good luck in any event.