Am I being unreasonable?

[Slim]

Hi Simon
Interesting your comment about lack of decent suppliers in Scotland. I'm pretty new to turning so haven't as yet run into a supply chain problem. I take it that Jean Burhouse in Dunkeld doesn't come up to scratch either then, and I think you are nearer them than I in Edinburgh.

Rob

I haven't been there Rob. Thanks for the heads up. They are not that far from me, maybe an hour or so. I'll have to make a trip out.

 

[wobblycogs]

I used to live down Southampton way and I agree the A31 is dangerous. For the sheer number of accidents though I think the M27 round Southampton has got to be the most dangerous road in the country. I commuted along it for a couple of years and there was an accident on more than half the days probably. The problem is too many sharp bends (for a motorway) and junctions all on top of one another.

Anyway, good luck getting the parts you need. Hope the Christmas presents turn out well.

 

[Russell]

Slim

Thanks, just glad your sorted hopefully. I have to say though in general Record are very good with their after sales service.

 

[Slim]

Well I have to say that Alan from Record Power has been very good today. He has tested the new lathe to make sure it is working properly and I should be getting it tomorrow.

Hopefully this will be the end of the matter.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[Jenx]

And also worthy of mention ... another RECORD 'Rotating Piece of machinery' that can't turn a revolution without vibrating itself to bits !

Their lathes being made to match their grinders now, obviously !

8)

I agree their service is good... but I also think they must get plenty of practice :wink:

After grim experiences with record 8" pitiful grinders ( 3 of them ) .. which oddly enough are reviewed by none other than Mark Baker in the mag this month and given a thumbs up... I'll never buy anything "Record" that turns circles, ever again.
Once 'Faith's Lost', thats kind of 'it' for me...
Hopefully you get on much better with the replacement 8)

 

[Slim]

Cheers Jenx.

Yesterday afternoon I received an email from Andrew Greensted the MD of Record who has investigated my complaint personally. It's great that he took the time to personally apologise and identify the failures of his customer service team on this occasion. From what he said, I am sure that their after sales service is not usually this bad.

The lathe arrived today as promised. I haven't had chance to turn anything yet. I've only just got it set up and it is running in as I type.

Fingers crossed for a better result this time [-o<

 

[wizer]

Well Done Record. Now let's see quality control improved, significantly.

 

[BMac]

Yep, Well Done Record, indeed. They have certainly impressed me too which is very encouraging seeing as I'm about to buy one of their bandsaws.

Brendan

 

[Blister]

And how often do we get this with record lathes

Wont be on my shopping list now they are cheap chiwaneese imports

 

[wizer]

I've had a good look at record machinery at the shows over the past couple of years and all of it 'feels' cheap and nasty. I'm happy with my RSDE2 but there's nothing in the Record range i'd ever buy. At least not til I've heard significant improvements to their quality control. Record used to be a name to be reckoned with, I don't think that is the case anymore. I sincerely hope the Startrite brand isn't going the same way.

 

[scratchy]

And how often do we get this with record lathes

Wont be on my shopping list now they are cheap chiwaneese imports

If you don't but "chaiwanese" products, what do you buy? I doubt if there is any machinery under a grand or two now that isn't made in China or Taiwan - virtually everything apart from high end stuff is made there - not just Record but Scheppach, Axminster, Jet, Metabo, Myford, Nova, Draper, Fox, Charnwood and the list goes on. I even hear that Hammer have machines or at least the parts made in China now. What is left?

Not only that but I have a Record BS350 bandsaw and a TSPP250. Both have given good service, the bandsaw in particular - I use it all the time. I can remember 10 years ago or so before all these "chaiwanese" machines were on the market - the only real choice for a hobby machine was the Elektra Beckum BAS315. My mate bought one back around 1998 and it was £450 then. The BS350 is bigger, more powerful, better built with better features and it cost me £399 a few years ago - it's still under £500 now. You can knock "chaiwanese" products if you want to but I think they have made reasonable machinery much more affordable. I could certainly never have bought a cast iron table saw 10 years ago for less than £2,000 or so - now there is loads of choice from £300 to under £1,000. OK you might have to do a bit of setting up and the odd fettle or shim - but unless you are rolling in dough that is a small price to pay for the range of affordable machinery we now have to choose from.

If we have to buy "chaiwanese" then at least I prefer where it makes sense to buy from a recognised brand (Record, Metabo or Scheppach) that have some history and knowledge of making machines and offer some back up than a nameless box shifter. At least Record offer a 5 year guarantee and my experience of their after sales has always been good. I can see from the forum they don't always get it right but then who does?

And it's not only machinery - cookers, fridges, washing machines, tellys, clothes, shoes etc etc. Virtually all affordable products (and probably some of the non-affordable ones) will be "chaiwanese". If you don't buy "chaiwanese" you must walk around naked and cook on an open fire

Cheers

Scratchy :wink:

 

[Blister]

And how often do we get this with record lathes

Wont be on my shopping list now they are cheap chiwaneese imports

If you don't but "chaiwanese" products, what do you buy? I doubt if there is any machinery under a grand or two now that isn't made in China or Taiwan - virtually everything apart from high end stuff is made there - not just Record but Scheppach, Axminster, Jet, Metabo, Myford, Nova, Draper, Fox, Charnwood and the list goes on. I even hear that Hammer have machines or at least the parts made in China now. What is left?

Not only that but I have a Record BS350 bandsaw and a TSPP250. Both have given good service, the bandsaw in particular - I use it all the time. I can remember 10 years ago or so before all these "chaiwanese" machines were on the market - the only real choice for a hobby machine was the Elektra Beckum BAS315. My mate bought one back around 1998 and it was £450 then. The BS350 is bigger, more powerful, better built with better features and it cost me £399 a few years ago - it's still under £500 now. You can knock "chaiwanese" products if you want to but I think they have made reasonable machinery much more affordable. I could certainly never have bought a cast iron table saw 10 years ago for less than £2,000 or so - now there is loads of choice from £300 to under £1,000. OK you might have to do a bit of setting up and the odd fettle or shim - but unless you are rolling in dough that is a small price to pay for the range of affordable machinery we now have to choose from.

If we have to buy "chaiwanese" then at least I prefer where it makes sense to buy from a recognised brand (Record, Metabo or Scheppach) that have some history and knowledge of making machines and offer some back up than a nameless box shifter. At least Record offer a 5 year guarantee and my experience of their after sales has always been good. I can see from the forum they don't always get it right but then who does?

And it's not only machinery - cookers, fridges, washing machines, tellys, clothes, shoes etc etc. Virtually all affordable products (and probably some of the non-affordable ones) will be "chaiwanese". If you don't buy "chaiwanese" you must walk around naked and cook on an open fire

Cheers

Scratchy :wink:

I must be fortunate then , so far I have avoided chiwanese lathes , my list is as follows

Poolwood 28 40
Poolwood Euro 2000
Union graduate variable speed
Woodfast
Silverdrive Statesman
and now a VB 36

correct me if I am wrong but I don't think any of these and made in China ?

My comment was regarding the amount od Record products the are supplied faulty , we have had a few posts recently on this subject

and If they arrive faulty and unusable I for one would not be happy , would rather get a second hand lathe ( as all of my lather are ) of a better quality

After all a lathe should be all about

1 Weight
2 size
3 Bearings and bearing life
4 usability
5 Hopefully ( Long life )
6 reliability

for that reason I prefer to buy used better quality lathes

You can pick them up for sensible money if you have a hunt around

My comment still stands

Wont be on my shopping list , but I hope you get a better lathe with the replacement

I wont comment on the TV fridge radio side of things as this is off topic

Allen

 

[big soft moose]

the woodfast is now the record maxi - and i'd be suprised if it doesnt have some parts made in the east

it is also quite possible that the variable speed electrics and motorwinding on even uk made lathes come from abroad

But that said i take your point about record - i have one of their scrollsaws and it took 3 attempts for yandles to supply me one that worked propperly

 

[Bodrighy]

I must admit I am more likely to look for second hand. OK you don't get the guarantee but you can suss it out, see it working, get feedback about it and pay a lot less. Higher end lathes tend to hold their price but that is perhaps because they don't deteriorate. I'd be happy with the older lathes I see them as the tractors of the turning world. Solid, no frills, workhorses. At the end of the day you need something that will turn a piece of wood at different speeds and not break down. The rest is up to you and your skill level. I'd rather spend the money on decent tools and live with an older lathe

Pete

 

[Blister]

the woodfast is now the record maxi - and i'd be suprised if it doesnt have some parts made in the east

it is also quite possible that the variable speed electrics and motorwinding on even uk made lathes come from abroad

But that said i take your point about record - i have one of their scrollsaws and it took 3 attempts for yandles to supply me one that worked propperly

My 2 Woodfast's were the WHITE Australian ones , before Record got their hands on the brand

I am waiting to see what cut backs happen on the Maxi 2

 

[wizer]

Indeed, my Woodfast (that was Blister's) had 'Made in Australia' stamped on the side. I've had a look at the new Maxi-2 and that stamp is no longer there. It also seemed to feel different when I looked over it. It was almost as if every part of it, legs, headstock, tailstock, bed, etc, was somehow lighter, or thinner. It appeared a little 'tinny'. However, I'm sure like all brands, their top end lathes will be just that, the best they can produce. It's the smaller, lower end products that seem to be coming up time and again as being faulty. Like Jenx grinder, the DVR that we had a long thread about recently, etc. I'm sure a high percentage of their products come of the production line fine and dandy. It seems the problem occurs in quality control.

 

[scratchy]

Blister wrote

"I must be fortunate then , so far I have avoided chiwanese lathes , my list is as follows

Poolwood 28 40
Poolwood Euro 2000
Union graduate variable speed
Woodfast
Silverdrive Statesman
and now a VB 36

correct me if I am wrong but I don't think any of these and made in China ?

My comment was regarding the amount od Record products the are supplied faulty , we have had a few posts recently on this subject

and If they arrive faulty and unusable I for one would not be happy , would rather get a second hand lathe ( as all of my lather are ) of a better quality"




Don't get me wrong - if I could buy a British made or European made product at the right price - I would prefer to do that. The main point I was trying to make is that the growth of "chaiwanese" imports has made a wider range of machinery much more affordable for the average hobby user like myself and that nowadays most of the machinery under a few grand is probably made in the Far East.

All of the products you have listed are fine products I am sure - but they are all top end machines and I don't think many are still made any more. Silverdrive no longer advertise or go to shows, I don't think Poolewood still make in the UK if at all, Graduate is no longer made etc. I believe the VB is still made here but that is beyond the reach of most on both a money and space basis.

I take your point on Records faulty products. It may well be their quality control does need improving. I did have a problem with my TSPP250 when I bought it - but that was new then and they fixed it straight away. I think you have to be careful to compare apples with apples. Record seem to be everywhere so I guess they sell big volumes - this post was about a CL3 which I see currently sells for £399. I am sure alot more CL3's are sold than VB's so even if they both had the same percentage of problems you would expect to see many more CL3 problems reported from a given group of users than VB problems because there will be alot more of them. That is quite apart from the fact that most of the products you list here may cost nearly 5 to 10 times as much as a CL3 in the first place.

If you have the knowledge and confidence to buy second hand that is great and I am sure there are some bargains out there. For me, depending on how much I paid I would always worry about spares if they ever became needed. I am sure you can get them made up if you need to but that is then getting to be a pain and potentially expensive.

My final comments were tongue in cheek - did not mean to cause any offence.

Good luck and have a good Christmas

Scratchy

 

[big soft moose]

those made in stamps dont meabn a lot anyway - all it means is that the lathe itself was assembled in australia - theres nothing in that that stops them "making it in australia" from parts that are made in china, india, the phillipines or wherever else.

Theres also no reason why made in china should automatically mean poor quality - so long as the importing company has decent quality control there no reeason why india, china or whwerever can't handle casting of iron or machining of parts just as well (or possibly considerably better) than a shop in sheffield or wherever

two examples that spring to mind are a) the toolpost versa chuck which peter helmnsley tells me he has made in india and are just tested on arrival, and b) the quasheng planes that mathewwh has started importing - they are from a chinese company but mathew is presumably inspecting them and thus workshop heavens reputation stands behind the brand.

So at the end of the day with the record situation the fault lies not in the chaiwanee manufacture but in the poor quality control exerted by record themselves.

 

[wizer]

agreed. The DEFT brand of Tablesaw which is thought of as the holy grail amongst some of us here, is a chaiwanese import. As is the SIP.

 

[Benchwayze]

It seems the lathe is not fit for purpose, under the Sale of Goods Act. If so, they MUST refund and take back the faulty lathe. No option.

HTH
John