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Advice on Cutters for repoducing very old Glazing bars

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Kin

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I´m making some sash windows to replace some old ones and need to reproduce the profile, either with a router bit or spindle moulder cutter. I´ve looked into bespoke ovalo router cutters and they are asking almost 500£ for the pair.

Ãny advice would be greately appreciated.

Many thanks
Glazing bar cross section.jpg
 

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Trevanion

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Whitehill could make that to fit a Euro spindle moulder block, might cost about £80 for the cutters and limiters custom ground to match.
 

Mike Jordan

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Two methods I can suggest are - send the sketch to Whitehill as suggested for a set of cutters to cut the rebate and mould.
Or assuming that you have a 125 mm rebate block and a smaller diameter limiter block you could make a simple cutter to just form the ovolo while the two blocks are mounted on the same spindle. It's an easy shape to make, the only tricky bit is getting the cutter projection right.
I have a Whitehill 96 X 50 block for that sort of job. It allows Whitehill to know what size cutters to make to run with the 125 rebate block.
The cheap Chinese blocks are all kinds of cutting diameters.
 

Yojevol

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It looks to me that the dimensions of the curve are 10 x 3.5mm, if I'm reading the drawing correctly. Wealden do a Flat Ovolo cutter which has a curve of 10 x 5mm. It might be possible to use this and get nearer your dimension by angling the cutter or,if that's not possible, making a jig to hold the workpiece at an angle.
Brian
 

RogerS

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NLS are also very good.

Have you given any thought yet as to how you're going to support the material when moulding it..especially the second side.
 

Yojevol

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RogerS":3o1ud1rn said:
NLS are also very good.

Have you given any thought yet as to how you're going to support the material when moulding it..especially the second side.
The whole profile, including the rebates, could be machined on a wide 16mm board. The bar would then be ripped from the board which, after a quick edge cleanup, will be ready for the next one.
Brian
 

RogerS

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Yojevol":2uwzixf4 said:
RogerS":2uwzixf4 said:
NLS are also very good.

Have you given any thought yet as to how you're going to support the material when moulding it..especially the second side.
The whole profile, including the rebates, could be machined on a wide 16mm board. The bar would then be ripped from the board which, after a quick edge cleanup, will be ready for the next one.
Brian
And how do you support the other edge ?
 

guineafowl21

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Trevanion":23gflwnh said:
Whitehill could make that to fit a Euro spindle moulder block, might cost about £80 for the cutters and limiters custom ground to match.
A quick, but relevant, thread hijack - While extolling the virtues of my spindle moulder, I might have accidentally talked myself into making someone a lean-to greenhouse. The existing, rotten one has glazing bars just like the above, but bigger.

Would you machine the bar as in the picture, ie upright, or form the ovolos with one cutter, then double rebate with another, ie sideways?
 

Doug71

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guineafowl21":1nlpbz50 said:
Would you machine the bar as in the picture, ie upright, or form the ovolos with one cutter, then double rebate with another, ie sideways?
That glazing bar would be going over my spindle moulded 4 times using my existing cutters. I would do the mould first then the rebates, the timber would be stood up/ on edge for all the cuts.
 

RogerS

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Doug71":3f5wwas8 said:
guineafowl21":3f5wwas8 said:
Would you machine the bar as in the picture, ie upright, or form the ovolos with one cutter, then double rebate with another, ie sideways?
That glazing bar would be going over my spindle moulded 4 times using my existing cutters. I would do the mould first then the rebates, the timber would be stood up/ on edge for all the cuts.
I'm curious to know how you safely keep the timber upright and tight against the fence because it's only 16mm wide before moulding and by the time you're doing the last rebate, you're trying to balance that timber on a 5mm wide edge. And even before then, the other cuts are tricky, surely ?
 

Kin

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I´m thinking of doing the entire profile in one pass with a custom made cutter. To do the other side I would make a piece that would fit around the mouding to hold it from the outside and put a bit of 5.5mm beading at the bottom by the fence to give it support from that side.

Does that sound like a good idea experts?
 

Mike Jordan

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If you use a pressure bar to hold it down and another to press the 12 mm side back to the fence I would expect it to run through the spindle safely.
 

RogerS

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I've also made a rectangular 'tunnel' into which the moulding goes. Sort of works. But it's a tricky one.

Mike, when you say 'pressure bar' I'm assuming you mean the one in the guard ? Trouble with that as I've found to my cost is that there is so little for it to bear on.
 

Doug71

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RogerS":t6aev02u said:
I'm curious to know how you safely keep the timber upright and tight against the fence because it's only 16mm wide before moulding and by the time you're doing the last rebate, you're trying to balance that timber on a 5mm wide edge. And even before then, the other cuts are tricky, surely ?
Shaw guard

shaw guard.jpg


If any problems with rebates making things wobble attach a piece of wood the same size as rebate to the out feed fence.

shaw guard 2.jpg
 

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Mike Jordan

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The photos show what I described, they would be better running with a spelch board bridging the fence gap and giving good attachment for any spacing strips you may use.
 

LBCarpentry

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I have purchased blank cutters from whitehill before and made my own cutters. Traced the moulding onto the cutters and about 2 hours on the bench grinder and she was done!
 

Trevanion

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I have purchased blank cutters from whitehill before and made my own cutters. Traced the moulding onto the cutters and about 2 hours on the bench grinder and she was done!
I did some a while ago for a batch of sashes with horns, saved a load of time over bandsawing and sanding. Took about a hour to grind both knives which cost around ~£10 for the blanks but it saved god knows how many hours of standing at the bandsaw. I wouldn't bother doing it for a mould and scribe set though, I'd just get Whitehill to do it matched to a 125mm rebate block.



 

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