14" (or so) vintage wooden planes.

[MIGNAL]

14" (or so) vintage wooden planes. Perhaps razee style. Why are they so (relatively) rare? I see 9 " smoothers, 22" + jointers, 17/18" wooden jack planes galore but not so with the smaller 14" wooden planes. They do exist of course but seemingly not that many. I find it a bit odd, surely the 14" size is ideal for a nimble jack.

 

[AndyT]

Like this one?

Standard issue in school in the 60s - maybe they've all been skipped!
I bought mine some time ago.

 

[D_W]

14" (or so) vintage wooden planes. Perhaps razee style. Why are they so (relatively) rare? I see 9 " smoothers, 22" + jointers, 17/18" wooden jack planes galore but not so with the smaller 14" wooden planes. They do exist of course but seemingly not that many. I find it a bit odd, surely the 14" size is ideal for a nimble jack.

It's difficult to have much nose to a plane and then have enough rear-side room (behind the bed) with clearance for an iron above a handle - and then some room for a hand to rest on the back of a plane behind the handle -if the plane is not 16-17 inches long. I think it's a layout issue (and probably preference for the feel of that layout).

If the handle is shoved further forward like in the razee picture above, the plane has to be razee or the iron will run into the handle.

Also, it changes the feel of the plane when you tuck the handle in closer to the iron like that - you can feel that the iron is closer to the handle, and if you like the sensation that the iron is at your fingertips, the traditional feel is a little nicer. When the handle is not that far behind the iron, it feels like the iron is trying to get behind you in a heavy cut.

Short answer, I think it was layout and user preference.

 

[worn thumbs]

The example in post No2 is what my woodwork teachers referred to as a Technical Jack plane.I never saw one in any other context.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

The example in post No2 is what my woodwork teachers referred to as a Technical Jack plane.I never saw one in any other context.

Yes - they're listed in the Marples 1938 catalogue under that name, with a 1 3/4" iron. Years ago, I read somewhere that was because they were intended for supply to technical schools - which would explain the smaller size, for use by smaller hands. Fits with both your recollection and Andy's, too.

Maybe, as Andy suggested, the sort of abuse they probably saw in schools meant that most ended up pretty beaten up, and skipped as a result.

 

[MIGNAL]

Many that I've seen have been fitted for a 2" blade. I've also seen them referred to being a school plane on a number of occassions. Maybe that's the answer, in that professional workers didn't use them very often and many of these planes were unfortunately subjected to teenagers. :!:
I still think they are a useful size. I find the 9" coffin smoother a little awkward if used for lengthy periods. That's usually OK because coffin planes are meant for the finishing touch. I really do like the 17/18" versions because they have a bit of heft when needed, yet still have that slick feel. The 14" version seems to be great for going full pelt when dimensioning, sometimes straight across the grain almost scrub like.
Andy's version looks in very fair condition. Obviously saved from teenage pranks and abuse.

 

[AndyT]

A bit more about my plane - Yes, definitely a technical jack/ school plane. Mine has a 2" iron and is actually 14 7/8" long.

The maker is Emir, which is a firm which still exists, based in Ashford, Kent, where they still make tools and benches from beechwood - see http://www.emir.co.uk/about/.

They were set up in England by members of the Emmerich family - the same family that still make the lovely EC Emmerich planes in Germany - http://ecemmerich.com/firmenportraet.html

[A few years ago there was a long rambling thread about an 'obelisk' trade mark which Jimi had spotted. It took me an embarrassingly long time to track down where I had seen it before - https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/mystery-obelisk-spotted-but-it-gets-away-t60984.html.]

Back on topic, Mignal, I agree that it's a handy, lightweight size which I like better than the commoner 17".

Another wooden plane of similar size is the late Marples composite wooden plane with Bailey style adjuster, which I guess could occupy the same place in the school tool cupboard.

(and https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/marples-hybrid-plane-t90264.html)

They are not common either, but are possibly easier to spot on eBay, where they do come up from time to time.


I bought my Emir jack from Bristol Design.

 

[MIGNAL]

I didn't know Emir were still in business! Pity they aren't making that type of plane today but I guess the market is what it is.

 

[Corneel]

I think David is on to something. I just made a 16" and a 14" jack plane. The 14" is really cramped. I need a smaller hammer to set the blade and the handle is always in danger of being mauled.

 

[MIGNAL]

But that's not razee style, which will give a bit more clearance for the hand.

 

[bugbear]

My Marples razee jack, 2" blade.

Which I turned into a rather good scrub;

http://www.woodworkinfo.site88.net/scrub.html

BugBear

 

[Corneel]

Indeed that is not a razee style, which is kind of th epoint. You need to do something special to the plane to get everything fitted in that space. I choose to shove the handle all the way up under the blade, and it is less then ideal. And that's probably why these planes are kind of rare. Much easier to just make a longer jack plane.

 

[lurker]

What a shame !
I sawed one up the other week
shoulder-plane-question-t94878-15.html

I'd have happily have given you it

With hindsight it was marked Darlington techical college, so goes to confirm the thoughts of others here

 

[DTR]

Doris has a razee jack with "11" carved into the heel. I never thought much of it before, but it would make sense if it came from a school.

 

[bugbear]

Question to the museum hounds, collectors, car booters and dealers;

Has anyone (in fact) seen a vintage non razee 14" long jack plane?

I haven't.

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

That's a good question BB. I don't have one.

But to help in the hunt, what about some evidence that they were offered for sale, so may have existed:

Looking in a few handy catalogues I find:

Marples 1928 and 1938: Ordinary (non-razee) jack planes - 14" to 17" long - all the same price. [The price depended on the width, and on extras such as parallel iron, striking button, closed handle, but you could choose your own length at no extra price. Whether your local toolmonger stocked a 14" plane was another issue - I suspect not!]

But they were not listed everywhere. For example, from another large vendor with a wide range - Skelton 1927 - non-razee jack planes - 16" to 18" only; choice of widths. "Jack Planes for Technical Schools" - 14" long, choice of width. Melhuish, 1925 - Technical Jack, 14" yes; but ordinary jack planes - 17" long only, whatever the width.

 

[D_W]

Indeed that is not a razee style, which is kind of th epoint. You need to do something special to the plane to get everything fitted in that space. I choose to shove the handle all the way up under the blade, and it is less then ideal. And that's probably why these planes are kind of rare. Much easier to just make a longer jack plane.

I'd be willing to bet that if you could find genuine 18th century jack planes with short offset handles, they might be an inch or two shorter (because the iron could clear the handle more easily). No clue what single iron jacks where bedded to (45 or 50 degrees?).

I do think it's a layout issue and comfort, though, not necessarily a length issue for the task at hand.

A 17 inch jack plane works awfully well on furniture sized stuff, though.

 

[richarnold]

both the single iron and double iron jack planes in the seaton chest are 14" long. there is a fore plane missing from the chest which is presumed to be 17" in length. I have recently picked up a single iron 14" jack, but have not had time to study it yet. I think the 14" jack may have died out to some extent at the begining of the 19th century, then re apears in our education establishments in the 20th century. It's also intresting to note that the first iron panel planes offered by the likes of Spiers, and Norris are 13 1/2" long. Cheers, Richard

 

[AndyT]

both the single iron and double iron jack planes in the seaton chest are 14" long. there is a fore plane missing from the chest which is presumed to be 17" in length. I have recently picked up a single iron 14" jack, but have not had time to study it yet. I think the 14" jack may have died out to some extent at the begining of the 19th century, then re apears in our education establishments in the 20th century. It's also intresting to note that the first iron panel planes offered by the likes of Spiers, and Norris are 13 1/2" long. Cheers, Richard

Good call Richard!

That'll be this one, I presume:

(I only have a picture, not a plane. )

 

[ED65]

[A few years ago there was a long rambling thread about an 'obelisk' trade mark which Jimi had spotted. It took me an embarrassingly long time to track down where I had seen it before - https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/mystery-obelisk-spotted-but-it-gets-away-t60984.html.]

Further confirmation if needed, I have an Emir jack and this is what I found stamped on the cap iron once I finally got the blasted thing out of the plane: