Dust Extractors

[morpheus83uk]

Hello,

I am looking for a dust extractor as the Wickes Wet and Dry vac does a goodish job however is starting to just have problems now where the suction is being lost and I cant seem to work out why. I have checked the filter, replaced the filter, emptied it and checked the hose and all is clean but still it is just unhappy. Its had a good run and at £40 I cant complain!

So I figured why not take the opportunity to get a proper dust extractor to try and stop the amount of dust in the garage as well as everywhere else and reduce the amount of time I have to tidy up.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I have read that some come with HEPA filters, some don't, some L class, some M class. I think I need M class as I will be using hard woods as well as softwoods and I believe M class deals with this from what I have read. Does it need to have a HEPA filter? What value does it give?

I am looking for something around the 30L mark as the Wickes one was only 20L which worked well but I kept having to empty it fairly often. Also what about filter bags? Are they worth the price? Do they reduce the amount you can collect? Recommendations around this as well would be appreciated.

Thanks

James

 

[Mike Jordan]

I suggest that you look at the posts of Raymond UK . The obviously happy owner of a fox842 machine.
Mike.

 

[sunnybob]

The canister collectors like this one
https://www.sipuk.co.uk/sip-dust-chip-collector.html
are very efficient.
Big problem is it is also very loud. If you make a sound deadening cabinet for it you will be pleased at how good it is.
But I wouldnt want to standing next to it while its working.

 

[Raymond UK]

I've had the SIP one Bob linked to.

Very loud indeed. Mine died after about 5 years (thank god)

Now replaced with a Fox F50-800. Much quieter and very good filtration. 30L but type L not M.

Also have the Fox F50-842 as Mike above said. This is a high volume extractor with 160L capacity. Not so good for fine dust.

 

[sunnybob]

Strangely, mine has died, 4 years old.
I just bought an axminster craft AC37E.
Its much quieter (I dont need an enclosure for it) but its nowhere near as good as that sip.
The sip would whoosh up anything I put in front of the hose, pencils, disposable gloves, even a wallpaper stripper!
This thing does collect dust and chips, but only just. With the 2 1/2" inch hose I use to clean the bench and floor I now have to wave the hose gently and very close to the bench.
If something happens to this, I will return to the screamer without a moments hesitation.

 

[morpheus83uk]

Thank you. I presume all of these can be used with power tools and have fairly long hoses? I also presume they are M Class for all the dust I will need them to collect? Obviously one isn't as stated.

I also notice these are chip extractors. What is the difference between a chip extractor and a dust extractor apart from one sucks up bigger bits or is that the only difference?

Thanks

James

 

[sunnybob]

I have never worked out the difference between chip and dust.
That sip write up is typical.
Check out the small print jere;
https://www.sipuk.co.uk/sip-dust-chip-collector.html
advertised as both, explains how good it is at both, then the very last line tells you its not for dust.
W.T.F.?

The ONLY complaint I had was the noise. A padded cabinet (on wheels if you dont have fixed ducting) solves that problem for a few quids worth of 22mm mdf,

I had it reduced from 4" to 2 1/2" and routed through a blast gate to each machine. I have a separate blast gate connected to 10 metres of 2 1/2" hose that I use to vacuum the floor and surfaces and I had to clear any small items away or they would be sucked straight up the pipe.
My "upgrade" replacement is woeful by comparison, I have to move the hose slowly and closely to the bench just to pick up dust. The low noise is the only redeeming feature

 

[Raymond UK]

What is the difference between a chip extractor and a dust extractor apart from one sucks up bigger bits or is that the only difference?

James,

Have a read through this thread:

a-guide-to-dust-extraction-by-member-siggy-7-t102025.html

It explains all very well. Basically one sucks up chips etc very well and the other collects dust very well.

I have 2 'dust' collectors and 2 'chip' collectors and that's all I need for now.

Just jot down a list of machines and hand tools you're planning to use and I'm sure people on here will steer you in the right direction.

 

[Raymond UK]

I have never worked out the difference between chip and dust.

Bob,

My first dust/chip collector was the SIP. Great suction as you said. This was my only extractor and was used on all my tools from router table to orbital sanders the lot. I still blame this thing on my Tinitus

I then bought a Clarke CDE35B (I think it's the same as your Axi) to reduce the noise and also found it wasn't powerful enough so kept the SIP for sanding etc and the Clarke for everything else.

I think both are chip extractors, not dust.

I now have a Fox F50-842 to use with my router table and belt/disc sander, a Fox F50-800 (wet&dry) for all my handheld sanders and jigsaw. Get one of these, you'll love it! The Clarke extractor is now dedicated to my table saw alone and collects 99% of the dust into a 60L barrel via a cheap Chinese cyclone mounted on top. The bag collection on these is ridiculous. Such a faff to empty!! Lastly I have a little portable extractor I bought from ALDI in case I needed one when out and about but finding myself using it all the time with my Cordless circular saw.

I think this hobby is getting out of hand! :roll:

 

[sunnybob]

Raymond, That sip of mine had obviously never been told it couldnt collect dust. i have 10 metres of 62 mm hose that I use as a giant vacuum cleaner to clear up with. Dont tell Sip, but my floor was always spotless afterwards.

This axminster... hmmm, it doesnt collect dust OR chips as well as the sip did. I regret buying this. As and when it dies, there will be another sip in the workshop, I will just have to build another soundproof box.

 

[Raymond UK]

Mine has about a metre of 100mm hose which connects to the cyclone via 63mm in and out and then 63mm to the table saw. Good enough for the one tool.

The Fox 842 is in a different league though. Not for fine dust though.

I'd recommend one of these Bob, https://www.poolewood.co.uk/product/fox ... 0-800-240/

35mm hose so that might be a problem for you. Suction is great and it's quiet. Silent compared to the SIP (hammer)

 

[MikeJhn]

The problem with any of the recommendations on here is that we can only comment on what WE have used, not which is the best for any situation, my 2400watt Numatic did not do the job of a chip extractor, but is fine (pun) for dust, any chip producing appliance needs serious high volume extraction as opposed to high pressure, in my experience the minimum on a high volume extraction unit is 1500M3/hr preferably 2000M3/hr, the vacuum cleaners like my Numatic can only achieve 300M3/hr which is totally inadequate for any type of chip extraction, but because of its high pressure it is perfect for dust.

Mike

 

[morpheus83uk]

Thanks for all the replies. I have seen some of the chip extractors when I went into axminster and they all look massive. I don't have the room for something that big in my garage.

I will be using it for my routers and while mounted to the router table, mitre saw, table saw, circular saw, Sanders and jigsaw that I can think of off the top of my head. I would also need it to have a fairly long hose or be able to purchase one as I have a small space I have to run it over or under tables to get to where I need it so cable length is also important.

Thanks

James

 

[sunnybob]

As Mike says, we can only comment on personal experience. My personal experience is that the SIP canister never failed me. From a 4" belt sander, through a 350 bandsaw, router table, 12" mitre saw, to a 12" thicknesser cutting hard and soft woods, to vacuuming the floor. It collected everything (Obviously only 1 machine at a time (hammer) ).

Side story here. When I first got the thicknesser, I had never used one before and had no concept of the bulk waste it produced. I was happily planing large planks when I realised the suction had fallen off and the extractor was making straining noises. I check the 20 litre dump tank under the cyclone. It was jammed full. The cyclone was jammed full. I opened up the sip canister and it was jammed full. It was so jammed full that I could not lift the lid due to the chippings being jammed around the internal air filter. I removed 2 x 60 litre plastic bags full of chippings.
The motor wore out after 4 years. The brushes were gone. I tried to get more locally but it never ran properly again, so I "upgraded". :roll:
I kept the 50 litre canister though, its my new cyclone dump tank. :lol:

My "workshop" is a 3 m x 5 m single garage so space is very important to me too. I also have no room for an 8ft high monster.
The noise is a VERY serious issue with the sip, but even with the machine inside the sound deadening cabinet it only took up around 20" square x 4ft high space.

 

[morpheus83uk]

Yeah I would love something like that to just sit in a corner out of the way and be emptied not very often. However I don't even thing I have that. I may have room for something which would sit under a hence but for 4ft tall unfortunately. As I have the table saw on a table, mitre saw on a stand with the lawn mower under that, the router table mounted on a small table I built. That's the entire side gone unfortunately. I wish I had a bigger garage lol.

 

[sunnybob]

If you have a lawn mower, why isnt in on the lawn? :roll:
I had a fight with my mrs when we moved here, a quarter of the garage had a tumble dryer and other inappropriate items taking up my space. I dont go leaving my tools all over her house do I?
Now all I have conceded is a shelf with paint tins on it. =D> =D>
Put the lawn mower outside with a cover over it, and put wheels on the cabinet, and you can roll the extractor around the shop as you need it.

 

[MikeJhn]

Lots of alternative HVLP chip extractors available that don't take up the whole room:
https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-t ... tor-508483
https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-c ... tor-105111

I am sure with a bit of ingenuity they could be incorporated into any workspace, there are others out there that will do the right job and have a smaller footprint, but don't be fooled into thinking a vacuum cleaner (LVHP 300M3/hr or less) will do the job effectively, until you actually use a HVLP (1000M3/hr or more) unit and see the difference to a LVHP unit all the advice in the world is worthless, do you know anyone with a HVLP unit that you can see working?

Mike

 

[morpheus83uk]

Unfortunately I don't. I presume they would still collect all the fine dust as much as a M Class?

Thanks

James

 

[MikeJhn]

1 Micron and 30 Microns respectively, it is quite easy to read the specification on the links.

Mike

 

[morpheus83uk]

I was looking at something like this if it would do the trick? Maybe not that exact one but to give you an idea...

Dust Extractor