workshop legalities

[Digit]

Then of course you get planning consent for the new build next door to me!
Large plot with mature trees all along the boundary betwixt us and none on 'tother side, so they build it up close to the trees.
The trees are Scots Pines, notorious for shallow rooting and dropping branches.
Two stories high and with gutters that fill with needles, seeds and cones about five times a year.
Then for the next miracle they put the kitchen door on that side, complete along windows so they can look straight at my workshop and garden shed, wonderful view, same with the garage.
On the other side there is thirty feet of clear space, no trees, no blocked gutters, and no windows either!
They had trouble selling it! :lol:

Roy.

 

[Shadowfax]

You guys are never going to come to a satisfactory conclusion all the time time you confuse "planning" with "building regs".

Some of the above has been associated with planning and permitted development and some of it has been associated with the Building Regulations. They are not related at all.
Planners will tell you how much you can build in your garden -officially.
A BCO will deal with the Building Regulations and will be concerned, for example, with the distance you can build a structure from a boundary where it is not essentially fire resistant in construction. That is covered by the Building Regulations and is not related to planning permission.
Basically, if you want the right information pick up the 'phone and dial up your local authority and ask your question of the people who have the right answers but try not to confuse planning permission with approved works under the Building Regulations.
It will be worth the price of the call and should leave no room for any doubts.
Cheers.

SF

 

[Digit]

As I pointed out earlier SF I did just that, spoke to two different people a week apart and received two totally opposite answers.
Not encouraging.

Roy.

 

[Shadowfax]

This is what I mean about confusion. BCO's do not deal with planning consent, Digit.
I expect you are talking about two views on a technical point concerning Building Regulations but I'm not sure.
I suppose there can always be different interpretations of the Regulations but what I am saying is that the people who can answer anybody's questions concerning planning or building regulation are the local authorities in the area concerned. That is their job and they should be there to help.
In the event of a dispute a determination will be made by the Secretary of State.
My advice is still to contact the Planning Office or the Building Control office or, indeed, both of them and ask the questions there rather than on here.
Just my attempt to help.

SF

 

[chicken_house_man]

I thought the planning portal said you could cover upto 25% of your land with outbuildings

 

[Digit]

The question I asked was 'do I need planning consent for a garage' then answered the questions they asked me.
One said yes I did need planning consent.
A week later same question and the answer was no!

Roy.

 

[Shadowfax]

The point I am trying to make is simply that planning permission and anything to do with planning is not the same thing as building control.
One is wholly to do with town planning and one set of legislation while the other is concerned with building correctly and safely in accordance with Building Regulations which are controlled by entirely different legislation.
There is no connection between the two and they should not be lumped together or played one against the other.
So when Digit says he asked a Building Control Officer about planning consent I immediately think he was asking the wrong person.
Ask a planning officer about planning and ask a building control officer about building control. The former deals with development and the control of it while the latter deals with the actual construction stages.

I know you can sometimes get different answers from different people but show me where that never happens!
Cheers.

SF

 

[skipdiver]

Yes,you're right.I do know that planning and building regs are different entities and perhaps my use of the term bco was used generically.I would also point out that if i went to the council planning department on monday morning and asked to speak to someone about planning or building regs,a nice gentleman called Barry would come and deal with my request.The same Barry who came down to a job i did recently near the council offices in his bco hat.There is some convergence of the two but "technically" you are right.


So lets put this all in a nutshell.If you stick to the criteria you do not need planning permission.The building regs don't even come into it.

If it were me(and very shortly it will be)i would/will just get on with it.

 

[neilyweely]

In bedford there is a 'little soho' area, covered in indian restaurants and the like, but it is a conservation area, and looks ok, until recently....
One of the indian restaurant owners got into trouble doing up his place as he had put up neon signs and his door opened out onto the street. Silly of him, but not a capital sin. They jumped all over the poor sod, cost him a fortune. Then, not six months later they thought it a good idea to put a 'YMCA' great big modern monstrosity over the road. It is HIDEOUS!
And now we have burglaries, muggings and sexual assualts. Now I am not saying it is all connected to the YMCA, but I tell you what, I will say what others are thinking - a GOOD portion of it is!

So, all I can say is - Bloody well done BEDFORD COUNTY COUNCIL in all your various guises! You have ruined what was a great little area. People are now leaving in droves.

And if you know Bedford you know what I am talkin about. People do deserve a second chance - yes - but you need control, and sensible planning. Neither of these seem to be prevalent in this case.

Neil (who has had his rant- but is right anyway)

 

[Digit]

Same here in Cardigan Neil. First they knocked down part of the castle defense walls to build a Woolworths then years later they decide to replace Woolworths with a new, larger shopping complex.
Cardigan is strictly controlled on such subjects as the shop fronts must blend, the town being predominantly Victorian/Edwardian, till the plans came forth for the Woolies replacement. It was terrible! Nobody liked the plans for an Avant Guard structure and the council were forced to reject it, so the the developer got the hump and left.
Then of course if there are any members here from the Alesbury area we could discuss Fred's Folly! :lol:

Roy.

 

[Rich]

Huh, you want to see Reading, no, belay that, you don't, it used to be a beautiful victorian town, now thanks to a labour controlled council it looks like a great big shopping mall with owners only stopping for a year or so, it only caters for the under 40's, the supposed big spenders, they'll learn soon enough when the dosh runs out, then you'll see another exodus of shopkeepers, all they are, are big plate glass monstrosities with no character, children from eastern Europe with cards in their hands asking for money and swearing at you when you decline to give, I know I mus'nt live in the past but when I used to help my mum with shopping on a saturday morning it was a pleasure, now we don't bother with town but go out to the superstores, which is giving in really.

dismayed,
Rich.

 

[skipdiver]

I read somewhere that the old part of York,the shambles etc was only saved from the developers flattening it by a few forward thinking councillors,who were put under intense pressure to back down but luckily held firm.Countless other town centres weren't so lucky and succumbed to the sixties craze of "modernisation".My own town being a good example.

 

[Digit]

Most of the trendy shops are closing in Cardigan as well, the youngsters are finally having to face reality money wise.
I read recently that the economy was kept afloat by the cost of housing, having been priced out of home ownership the younger generation have been spending their cash in the high streets.

Roy.

 

[Rich]

Most of the trendy shops are closing in Cardigan as well, the youngsters are finally having to face reality money wise.
I read recently that the economy was kept afloat by the cost of housing, having been priced out of home ownership the younger generation have been spending their cash in the high streets.

Roy.

And when that's gone that's another one I'll be supporting :shock:

 

[CWatters]

Some of the info posted on this thread is wrong and some confused..

Planning Permission:

If you want to run a business from an outbuilding you are likely to need plannng permission for "change of use" because residential and business are in different "use classes"...

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/englan ... 94558.html

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/englan ... 37913.html

Assuming the workshop is just for hobby use....

Most but not all houses have "Permitted Development Rights" when they are built. These allow a certain amount of extending and new building without need for Planning Permission...

If the workshop will be more than 5 meters from the house see this page about Outbuildings...
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/englan ... 33173.html
If closer than 5 meters it counts as an extension. See this page on Extensions...
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/englan ... 06572.html
In particular note the volume requirements for extensions...
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/englan ... 23608.html

If in doubt...most councils have a free and quick "Permitted Development Enquiry" proceedure whereby you can send in a sketch and a form and they will tell you if you need PP. I've just been through this process and have been told I need PP for a shed as I'm in a Conservation area and the shed is more than 10 cubic meters in volume.

Building Control

All building work has to comply with the Building Regulations but generally you won't need to get Building Control Approval for an outbuilding provided:

The floor area is less than 15 sqm.
or
The floor area is between 15 and 30 sqm but is more than 1 meter from the boundary or constructed from fire proof materials.

Having said that...individual aspects of the construction may require Building Control approval if you DIY rather than use an "competent person". For example the electrics: You will either have to use an electrician (who should give you a certificate) or if you DIY you need to involve Building Control.

That's the short version. If in doubt ask the planning officer or your BCO.

 

[skipdiver]

Yeah,it is getting a bit confusing isn't it.If i wasn't such a numpty with 'puters i would have just posted the link from the portals as you have.

I think the best thing to do is just go to the council and talk to them.They are always friendly and helpful where i live.

 

[neilyweely]

folks, this is great!

This is why I read this forum, I now have a whole new plan of attack for my workshop, and am hoping to keep costs down even more.

It seems that some of the stipulations must vary from one area to the next so I think I shall just go ahead and worry later. Obviously I shall stick to what I believe to be the case, and if i am wrong then will have to cross that bridge when I come to it.

Garywayne, skipdiver, digit, cwatters, rich and all - thanks for your input so far, thats great.

Of course, the biggest sin in bedford for years was when the council saw fit to knock down the old cinema, a fantastic building with GREAT history (the beatles played there, all sorts..) and left it for years as an empty hardcore strewn plot that they charged 20p to park on!!! Nobody could believe it, and yet when you tried to find out who authorised it nobody knew what you were talkin about!!! And I cannot have my windows cos of the way the light reflects. ahem. muppets!

I think you need special training to be a BCO and the like!!!
I can imagine, eh?

Thankyou, and goodnight.

Neil

 

[skipdiver]

Glad i could be of some help.Knowledge is power.

I am about to embark on a major refurb of my new house.Going to build a workshop and two extensions so i will have the bco round checking up and asking for cash.I'm doing my extensions on a building notice and i know for sure they will stop me at the start and make me get a report on the drains from the water board.The water board will want their pound of flesh too.Last time it was £100 for me to dig test holes,find all the sewer pipes,draw a plan and send it to them.The £100 was for administration apparently.The building regs have just gone up again where i live for the umpteenth time.I hate red tape with a passion.

My workshop will be done without any notifying of the council from me.If anyone complains,i will take my chances.I am not advovating others to do this but that's the way i am going.

Good luck with your project Neil.

 

[neilyweely]

steve

I think this is the way I am going I'm gonna go as well, I have a very poor relationship with the building regs guy, after the last job when the people I was working for decided he was picking on them because they were indian!! So he thinks I accused him of being a racist, and now I have a hell of a time whenever we meet.

Truth is, I am sure he is not a racist, just incompetent. Which I suppose isn't so bad, he makes everyones life hell regardless of colour! Great!

I am thinking of working in a different county so I do not have to cross
swords with him anymore!


Till then I shall feign ignorance.

cheers guys

neil

 

[Digit]

It's the people who enforce them that give me the creeps Skip, some of them seem to make them up as they go along.
Read this,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main ... do2502.xml

My home is roofed with asbestos cement and I've done quite a lot of research on the subject and how we got into this mess;
Asbestos cement is actually classified as a Class one carcinogen; along with the contraceptive pill and wait for it! BEER!
Give some people a little bit of power and they lose all shred of common sense.

Roy.