Working Spindle spacings for staircase?

[sigibbons]

I have been asked to install newel posts, handrail and spindles onto an existing staircase which has short stubbie newel posts and im assuming a mopstick style handrail screwed to the wall.

I was thinking of doweling the new newel posts down on the old short ones with lots of glue. Although i did use some 20mm steel bar once on a gate post repair and that seemed really solid so may use that instead of a wooden dowel??

Then handrail fitted as normal into new posts. Now i was taught how to work out diagonal spacer lengths for spindles at college but i cant for the life of me remember the formula so i have come up with a method myself but im not sure how accurate would be so any comments would be great. I would work out the angle of the string using my roofing square and a level and a bit of board. For now i'm saying the string is at 35 degrees.

Has anyone got a guide to fitting out stairs from strings upwards?

Thanks for any input!
Simon.

 

[chippy1970]

I always work out the horizontal distance between posts from this you can work out the horizontal space between the spindles remembering to stay below 100mm. I then draw two spindles spaced apart by the amount you want, on paper or whatever is handy. Now get a bevel draw the angle of the string across the two spindles and this will give you the length and angle of the spacers.

Sounds pretty much how you do it too.

I am sure there is a calculation that I did learn many moons ago at college but I find it easier to just do a quick 1:1 drawing.

With the newel posts I take it you know they make posts especially for adding to old cut off stumps these already have a 50mm dowel.

 

[sigibbons]

Chippy, Thanks. I didn't know about the newel post add ons ill have a look into them. I guess they come with a 50mm dowel already in the bottom of them and all you have to do is drill the existing, glue and tap on?

There are so many methods for spindles i'm trying to find the most accurate and simplist. I like your way but if you measure say 1mm out when you lay the two spindles out then you'd be like 20-30mm out on a long run? Just a thought.

What method do you use for working out the horizontal distance between posts? In a circumstance where you cannot drop a plumb down from the top post.

Thanks alot, Simon.

I always work out the horizontal distance between posts from this you can work out the horizontal space between the spindles remembering to stay below 100mm. I then draw two spindles spaced apart by the amount you want, on paper or whatever is handy. Now get a bevel draw the angle of the string across the two spindles and this will give you the length and angle of the spacers.

Sounds pretty much how you do it too.

I am sure there is a calculation that I did learn many moons ago at college but I find it easier to just do a quick 1:1 drawing.

With the newel posts I take it you know they make posts especially for adding to old cut off stumps these already have a 50mm dowel.

 

[steve tighe]

Horizontal distance between the inside faces of the posts plus the thickness of a spindle is the measurement you want.

Go for whatever centre's you want as long as the gap between sticks is less then 100mm...90mm is pretty good.

Whatever you work out,remember you'll have one space more then you'll have sticks.

Put the horizontal dims up here with the thickness of the sticks & I'll show you how to do it.

 

[sigibbons]

Right handrail fixing methods now...
Just spotted these http://www.stairplan.com/stelten.htm

They look excellent and i think would be very sturdy but i know the traditional way is to M+T and draw dowel. But really trying to manouver a length of handrail into mortices while one newel post is still loose may be difficult on my own so i thought thos Stelten fixings i could fully fix the newels and then the handrail would just drop in as the metal peices arent very big there would be enough give in the fixed newels?

 

[J D Architectural Joinery]

When dowelling your newel into the newel base, use a split dowel, that way the more it goes it the tighter the fit.

Count the treads, add them together, this will give you the rough going that you can then divide your spindles into and get the amount of spindles you need. Cut your spindles to the angle you need and the length. Put all the spindles into the the base rail. Measure the remaining gap on the angle, along your base rail, then divide that number by the amount of spacings you need, and hay presto.

 

[sigibbons]

I assume most new 'turned newels' come with a 50mm dowel turned on the end?
So you mean put a cut in this and use like a 48/9mm drill bit to drill the base newel and it will tighten up the further in it goes.

Another good trick with the spindles but wouldnt you be getting the diagonal spacings between the spindles if you measure along the string so you wouldnt know if your spaces were under 100mm?

Thanks!

When dowelling your newel into the newel base, use a split dowel, that way the more it goes it the tighter the fit.

Count the treads, add them together, this will give you the rough going that you can then divide your spindles into and get the amount of spindles you need. Cut your spindles to the angle you need and the length. Put all the spindles into the the base rail. Measure the remaining gap on the angle, along your base rail, then divide that number by the amount of spacings you need, and hay presto.

 

[J D Architectural Joinery]

I assume most new 'turned newels' come with a 50mm dowel turned on the end?
So you mean put a cut in this and use like a 48/9mm drill bit to drill the base newel and it will tighten up the further in it goes.

Another good trick with the spindles but wouldnt you be getting the diagonal spacings between the spindles if you measure along the string so you wouldnt know if your spaces were under 100mm?

Thanks!

When dowelling your newel into the newel base, use a split dowel, that way the more it goes it the tighter the fit.

Count the treads, add them together, this will give you the rough going that you can then divide your spindles into and get the amount of spindles you need. Cut your spindles to the angle you need and the length. Put all the spindles into the the base rail. Measure the remaining gap on the angle, along your base rail, then divide that number by the amount of spacings you need, and hay presto.

Say you have 10 treads a 220 go That means 2200mm your spindles are 44mm. 99+44 =143, 2200 / 143 = 15.38
Cut 15 spindles to the length and angle you need. Put them all together on the base rail Measure the gap thats left and that will give you a measurement. Divide that by 16 and that will give you the length of your spacer which remember will be more that 100mm but when the pindles are spaced they will be approx 95 / 96mm apart

Hope that is a bit more clear.

Oh and if its a burbidge newels that you use they already come split

If 133mm gives you a gap of less than 100 then you don't need to bring it down to 120.

 

[chippy1970]

I just looked at what I wrote yesterday and thought what am I on about.

I don't really do it that way at all I usually fit the hand rail and base rail then workout roughly how many spindles I need to get below a 100 mm gap then put all the spindles together in the rails and measure the space left up the rail. This gives you the total spacers so you divide this by one more than the amount of spindles.

You wouldn't think I did this for a living :lol:

Its one of those things thats hard to say how you do it , I just do it :lol:

I had a fun one to do on Friday finishing off an oak staircase, no spindles but I had to fit 10mm toughened glass panels to it that I had templated a few weeks ago. It all went in with double sided foam tape which was a pain then I found it easier to wet the glass to get it in.

Looked good but what a pain :lol:

 

[bigal02]

I've just tried to post but don't know if I was successful so I'll try again.

The diagram in the first post shows a stair of 35 degrees with the string being 4 metres long.

The method I've worked out to get the horizontal distance between top & bottom newels is to measure 1 metre (1000mm) up the string from the bottom and put a mark there.

Level back to the newel post and measure that distance. If the angle is 35 degrees it'll be 820mm. (if you can't get an accurate measurement due to the profile of the newel, plumb down to the floor and measure across).
Simply multiply the measurement, (820mm) by the full length of the stair string (4.000m) and that give the horizontal length between the newels as 3280mm.

The spindle spacing can then be worked out easily.

Also, If you need fillets top and bottom, to get the length of the angled fillet, divide the 1000mm by the horizontal distance (820mm) and multiply by the distance between the spindles. This gives the long point to short point measurement.