Wood movement

[Froggy]

Hi all,

I've recently noticed that a lot of cabinet makers, including some fairly renown ones, seem to attach tops to bases without allowing for wood movement. Below is a picture of a Hank Gilpin buffet/table that doesn't seem to me to allow for wood movement. Am I missing something here or are they just ignoring the 'rules'?

Here is a link to Hank's work http://hankgilpin.com/

 

[custard]

I don't think that breaks the rules, pound to a penny those fasteners are floating and there's some play. All it takes is a shallow forstner bit hole on the other side of the screw blocks. Alternatively the blocks themselves could slide between the supporting cross arms, but I can't see the groove that would require.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

The holes in the screw blocks will be oversize to allow seasonal movement. Notice the large washers beneath the screw heads, to span the big hole underneath.

Mike.

 

[Froggy]

I didn't notice the washers until I enlarged the photo.

 

[Chris152]

Really nice table, isn't it? I like that he's included the split with butterfly joints. Contrasts the geometry of the rest of the table.

 

[Mike Jordan]

In traditional cabinet work there are a few instances of common design features which do as you suggest, ignore the problems of timber movement. A table top with a breadboard end for instance. Or the beautiful looking mitred clamp end, skilled work which looks great when newly completed but is certainly doomed to failure with even a modest change in ambient moisture level.

 

[custard]

"A table top with a breadboard end for instance"

I'm not sure about that Mike. I secure the central tenon on a breadboard end, but the outer tenons float in over wide mortices...it seems to work because I've never lost one yet!

As to mitred corners, yes I do those too, but it's lipping with a veneered ply or MDF centre panel, so no movement problems.

 

[Froggy]

Really nice table, isn't it? I like that he's included the split with butterfly joints. Contrasts the geometry of the rest of the table.

Chris I like a lot of his work. Especially his choice and range of woods.

 

[dzj]

In traditional cabinet work there are a few instances of common design features which do as you suggest, ignore the problems of timber movement. A table top with a breadboard end for instance. Or the beautiful looking mitred clamp end, skilled work which looks great when newly completed but is certainly doomed to failure with even a modest change in ambient moisture level.

Paul Sellers has an interesting take on this. I'm not sure that I agree with his explanation.
https://paulsellers.com/2017/07/midst-noise-silence/

(Referring to the first photo)

 

[Mike Jordan]

My dislike of the breadboard is not that iit is likely to destroy the top as the mitred clamp may do, but that the top and ends will be a different width after a few months in the customers house. I acknowledge that they have been around a long time but still don't regard them as an elegant solution.

 

[custard]

My dislike of the breadboard is ... that the top and ends will be a different width after a few months in the customers house.

I make a fair few tables with breadboard ends, in the UK what I find is that the piece moves once during the first year in situ. After that any subsequent seasonal movements are fairly trivial. If we lived on the East coast of the USA it would be a different story, but with our constantly damp maritime climate it's less of an issue. Therefore I warn my clients in advance, and offer to flush the breadboard ends back after a few months About half take me up on that offer, and the other half choose to leave it as a statement of what solid timber does!

When I made a kitchen table for my own house I left the breadboard end untouched. If it was a more formal setting I might think differently, but in this location I quite like it's casual unconcern.

 

[iNewbie]

Nice little piece on him on Vimeo:

https://vimeo.com/173207895

 

[Chris152]

Nice little piece on him on Vimeo:

https://vimeo.com/173207895

Fantastic!

 

[custard]

Nice little piece on him on Vimeo:

https://vimeo.com/173207895

Thanks for posting, what a lovely guy that Mr Gilpin is.

If Pete Maddex is reading, I've got some very nice off-cuts of the same highly figured Fiddleback Ambrosia Maple that is shown at 05:11 in that video, it might be just what you need for one of your boxes. If so PM me and it's yours.

 

[marcros]

Nice little piece on him on Vimeo:

https://vimeo.com/173207895

Thanks for posting, what a lovely guy that Mr Gilpin is.

If Pete Maddex is reading, I've got some very nice off-cuts of the same highly figured Fiddleback Ambrosia Maple that is shown at 05:11 in that video, it might be just what you need for one of your boxes. If so PM me and it's yours.

Ambrosia maple... I have seen it before, but what is it exactly? a form of spalting? fungal attack whilst the tree is still alive?

 

[Beau]

Hello,

The holes in the screw blocks will be oversize to allow seasonal movement. Notice the large washers beneath the screw heads, to span the big hole underneath.

Mike.

I use that system a fair bit. So quick to do and no messing around making slots for the screws to sit in.

 

[Froggy]

Here's another video http://hankgilpin.com/furniture/watch-a-video/
I find the guy very inspirational.

 

[woodbrains]

Nice little piece on him on Vimeo:

https://vimeo.com/173207895

Thanks for posting, what a lovely guy that Mr Gilpin is.

If Pete Maddex is reading, I've got some very nice off-cuts of the same highly figured Fiddleback Ambrosia Maple that is shown at 05:11 in that video, it might be just what you need for one of your boxes. If so PM me and it's yours.

Ambrosia maple... I have seen it before, but what is it exactly? a form of spalting? fungal attack whilst the tree is still alive?

Hello,

I think it is just a colour the wood takes on as it grows due to minerals in the soil. I had a piece of spalted and rippled, ambrosia maple once. Cheeses it was beautiful and I'll probably never see the likes of it again.

Mike.

 

[custard]

Ambrosia maple... I have seen it before, but what is it exactly? a form of spalting? fungal attack whilst the tree is still alive?

It's some kind of boring beetle or worm. These are some of the Ambrosia Maple boards I've been working with,

If you look really closely there's almost always a 1mm diameter hole in the centre of the dark brown streak. The streaking seems to be some kind of chemical reaction between the sap and the bug. I always fill the hole in finished furniture so it's invisible, worm holes generally give clients the heebie-jeebies! Up until maybe ten or twenty years ago these boards were pulped or used for firewood, it's only recently that the market has woken up to their appeal.

There is another Maple phenomena that I've occasionally heard described as Ambrosia, I've only ever come across it with Birds-Eye Maple and it looks like this,

I've had a few of these boards over the years, but they're a pipper to actually use successfully in a project, so they tend to hang around the workshop for ages until inspiration strikes. This has a much broader band of a dark honey colour. I doubt this could be caused by a worm, and anyway there's never any evidence of a flight hole. I don't know the explanation, but maybe it's a soil effect like Mike suggested?

 

[marcros]

As Mr Gilpin said in one of the videos- when you start to restrict the species, you start to notice the huge amount of different effects that occur. I like that last board, but can see why it would be a bugger to use, particularly in a commercial workshop.