Wondering simething about beam conpression

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Tetsuaiga

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Beams under force are meant to compress on their top section and have tension on the opposite side.

Something I'm wondering is that the shortest distance between two points, for instance the end of a beam is a straight line. When the beam bends, does the top section get shorter while bending, because I imagine for it to compress that's what has to happen. I suppose the flexing must bring the ends at the top closer to the centre but further apart than originally on the bottom?

The top curve and the bottom are not idential replicas of one another, if you imposed one on top of the other?
 
The two curves are not identical. because as the top of the beam compresses the top surface becomes shorter. The two ends of the top surface also start to move into the centre. Therefore the top surface curve is between two points that are closer together than the bottom surface
 
I think it depends what you mean by "get shorter." The top of the beam in your example will not be any shorter as such, it will however be distorted so that the two ends can be closer together (in exaggerated form think of the top as crumpling up like corrugated cardboard).
 
sunnybob":a0fmo6yv said:
The two curves are not identical. because as the top of the beam compresses the top surface becomes shorter. The two ends of the top surface also start to move into the centre. Therefore the top surface curve is between two points that are closer together than the bottom surface

Surely the curves are identical, just a different length? The top and bottom of the beam would still be parallel.
 
Not necessarily. As the wood gets closer to failure the fibres at the top (in this example) compress and the ones at the bottom open out or separate. The beam in the centre can give the appearance of swelling. It depends how the forces are acting among other things. Think of holding a marshmallow and squeezing it in your fingers. If you press in the centre of two opposing sides, both the top and bottom will bulge out. But if you press towards an upper edge you can compress and deform the top but create elastic stretching that elongates the bottom. The top and bottom curves will not be parallel. A timber beam behaves similarly but has less elasticity. The snag with wooden beams is that failure can be affected a lot by the wood structure, natural cracks and so on, which is why timber framed buildings are so over engineered I suppose.
 
Tetsuaiga":2b7aqrfm said:
Beams under force are meant to compress on their top section and have tension on the opposite side.

Something I'm wondering is that the shortest distance between two points, for instance the end of a beam is a straight line. When the beam bends, does the top section get shorter while bending, because I imagine for it to compress that's what has to happen. I suppose the flexing must bring the ends at the top closer to the centre but further apart than originally on the bottom?

The top curve and the bottom are not idential replicas of one another, if you imposed one on top of the other?

An awful lot of very complicated books with a lot of maths in them have been written on this subject, and an awful lot of experimental work done in many, many laboratories - mainly because a lot of the built environment depends on being able to predict what beams will do!

The simple answer is "it depends". On lots of things. The material the beam is made of - especially whether that material behaves as an elastic or as a plastic, it's dimensions, and how it's loaded. A great deal of time and money are spent analysing such things to ensure that things will do what they're supposed to - aircraft wings, for example, are not much good if they break off at 30,000 feet. Hence lots of hard sums to see that they don't. Normally.

For something like a shelf in a bookcase, made of wood, and supported at both ends, with a full load of books, the wood will deflect - you can usually see it! If the shelf returns to it's straight original form when the books are removed, that deflection is referred to as 'elastic', and in that case, the top fibre will compress a little, and the bottom fibre will stretch a bit. (Same thing happens with most metals, but not with concrete, unless someone puts some steel wire reinforcement in it.) The shape of the curve the shelf takes up will not be the same if the load were just a heavy lump in the middle, and will be different again if the lump were nearer one end. If the shelf is fairly thin relative to it's length (which most are!) the curve of the top fibre will be very close to the same shape as that of the bottom fibre - but that may not hold good in a beam that's thick relative to it's length, or of changing section (aircraft wing again!).

So - yes, in a simply-supported beam with a point load or a distributed load, the top fibre is in compression and shortens, and the bottom fibre is in tension and stretches; thus, the ends of the top are (very slightly) closer together, and the ends of the bottom further apart - you're quite right. In most 'normal' situations, those changes of size are not great, however.

Hope that helps - for more information, any good book on Strength of Materials will do; but don't blame me if you end up scratching your head - this stuff can get seriously complicated!
 
Thanks for the excellent replies. I may well take a look at that book cheshirechappy.
 
Tetsuaiga":2wrl6ye7 said:
Beams under force are meant to compress on their top section and have tension on the opposite side.

Something I'm wondering is that the shortest distance between two points, for instance the end of a beam is a straight line. When the beam bends, does the top section get shorter while bending, because I imagine for it to compress that's what has to happen. I suppose the flexing must bring the ends at the top closer to the centre but further apart than originally on the bottom?

The top curve and the bottom are not idential replicas of one another, if you imposed one on top of the other?

Under compression (i.e. subject to compressive forces) does not necessarily mean the compression (reduction in distance) will be very great. If you put hardened steel under a few Lbs, it is under compression, but won't compress much.

As was said, it all depends.

As an aside, this is why sparks drill cable holes in the (unstressed) middle of the beam. It's also why an RSJ is very thick at the top and bottom (e.g. 4") and very thin in between (e.g. 3/8")

BugBear
 
BugBear is spot with what he is saying. Beams will have an area running the full span which is known as
"the neutral axis". This area or sometimes called neutral fibre does not change in length under loading up to the elastic
limit of the beam material (the elastic limit is the point where further loading will cause permanent deformation or
collapse of the beam. As the neutral axis does not change in length it is not strained and does not experience stress due
to loading.
 
I think you need to explain the context of what you are trying to do.
The way a beam deflect is not just dependent upon the load applied, but on whether it is uniformly applied or not along its length and also on how it is supported at the ends. ie is it free to rotate ( simply supported) or restrained either as part of a multispan beam or the securing method. Dependent upon the geometry of teh beam and the way it is installed and loaded it may fail through deflection or plastic failure. for softer materials and thin sections they can often fail at the support point, particularly when "hogging" over a central support
 
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