Windows

[Calpol]

Anybody know how to make window frames? Fancy giving it a go, the house needs new windows and the barn will at some point as well. On sectional pictures they always have strange profiles which don't really look necessary, and also are they able to be made in a home workshop?

Thanks

Calum

 

[j]

There was an excelent thread here a couple of months ago with loads of pics and info, very useful.

A quick search brings up this

HTH
J

 

[John McM]

I wonder how many other woodworkers would like to have a stab at replacing their old rotten or hideous plastic windows. If they could combine all the benefits and security of modern double glazing with the beauty and warmth of traditional oak casements, and save a fortune into the bargain then how many would love to give it a go?. Is it in the realms of hobbyist woodworker. Trouble is there seems to be a complete dearth of information on how to make windows. I reckon it would make a cracking series for a magazine. I bet Im not the only one waiting for it.

Cheers

 

[Calpol]

That is an excellent thread, cheers J. What I'll do is whack up some CAD drawings and post them up here just as a kind of reference and see if they're good or naff! Thanks all

 

[AndyT]

Calum - I don't want to spoil your enthusiasm, but one reason not to make your own windows is that building regs are quite strict on what is and is not allowed. I expect better informed professionals will give you the detail, but I think the overall rule is that you can repair a broken or partly rotten frame in the same way as it was made, but a replacement window has to meet standards for insulation and be installed by a registered installer - though I expect that last bit will get argued about...

Andy

 

[Calpol]

hmmm... They don't need repaired though, just replaced. They're metal frames and single panes, let all the heat out and there's condensation and stuff. I'll look into it a bit more then and see what comes up

 

[andy king]

Trouble is there seems to be a complete dearth of information on how to make windows. I reckon it would make a cracking series for a magazine. I bet Im not the only one waiting for it.

As Technical Editor of Good Woodworking Magazine, I can say hand on heart that I have done exactly this is our mag, a casement sash, complete with georgian bars, top fan light and side hung sash, done with traditional techniques and using basic machinery and hand tools.
I've also done stormproof sahes, french doors, a stable door, and again, all using traditional techniques.
I've also promoted the use of a setting out rod in these projects, indeed, in most everything i've made for the mag, which can be a little galling when I read constantly here how people expect a magazine to do such a thing as there seems to be no one doing it.
This is not a personal dig at you, but some members have had digs at mags without foundation, and in some cases, have then also said that they don't actually read magazines!
Very frustrating for me when I read it, it's my livelihood that is being questioned without foundation. :x
Anyway, that aside, the problem is, where we may have done a window for instance, making a whole houseful isn't really the basis of a feature over a course of months, the technique remains the same, so you are treading over old ground. Also, if we have done a feature on a window, unless a different style is on the agenda (box sash for instance) it's difficult to revisit a similar design in a short space of time.
As for glazing regulations, they have changed.
Replace a single glazed window with a D/G one and you would think it has to be good. No, it's under the new legislation, it has to be fitted by a registered glazier or fitting company, either that or it has to be passed by the local authority.
You can replace glass in an already installed window, even upgrading fromsingle to doule glazed is fine, but take the frame out and it apparently has to be authorised. If I recall, it can need planning permission if you want to tackkle it without a certified company doing it.
There are other installation/glazing proceedures under the new regs as well.
I thought when I first heard that upgrading from single to double glazing may need planning was a joke, especially as the regs came into force on April 1st!

Andy

 

[John McM]

Andy, I can't find a book that shows in detail how to make a hardwood window incorporating double glazing, weather strip, security locks, ventilation grills and typical drawings/plans. A magazine article covering that and looking at the facts about regulations would cover the gap.
I wasn't knocking, I do buy Good Woodworking and thoroughly enjoy it and have already learnt a lot from it so thanks for that.

 

[andy king]

Hi John,

Thanks for reading us!
I'm not sure if we can get anything along those lines into GW, I'll pass it on to my editor and see if we can get a feature of any sort out of it.

Andy

 

[ProShop]

I've lost count of the windows I've made etc over the years, by hand & machine.
And surprisingly timber window frames are making a comeback I'm pleased to say, mainly in the conservation areas and in the high spec market, but also gaining popularity on the environmental front.

You can easily make windows by hand but ideally you need some machines with horsepower to make the various profile sections for modern high spec windows.

It's not that long ago you could buy the profile sections from various timber/builders merchants, but when plastic really took over most of them stopped stocking it and hence the manufacturers stopped making them which was a real shame. you could even buy the profile sections vacuum treated which was a great idea as it prolonged the life of new softwood windows no end.

Carpentry & Joinery part 3 by Brian Porter is a good read. It has a section on windows, with detailed drawings etc of the many types of window construction including double glazing.
It was first published about 1986 ish, but had been reprinted & updated several times the last reprint was 2004 so it's quite up to date. It also covers doors, doorframes, stairs, gates, garage doors etc etc. It has no glossy pics, but has plenty of detailed drawings about the subjects along with how to info, no self respecting joiners/apprentice would be seen without a copy.

Recommended
Hope this helps

 

[RogerS]

And surprisingly timber window frames are making a comeback I'm pleased to say, mainly in the conservation areas and in the high spec market, but also gaining popularity on the environmental front.

Hear, hear! My only objection is the size of timber required to fit those over-spec'd double glazing units. You end up with more wood than window and they just don't look right. :evil:

Compare this abomination with the windows here

 

[John McM]

Andy, thanks for considering this topic as a feature.

John, thanks for the book recommendation, I'll follow that up.

Roger, can't argue with you there, seems a heavy price is paid by aesthetics to incorporate modern technology. Maybe I'm on a quest for the Holy Grail.

Anyone ever laminated windows?

 

[RogerS]

Roger, can't argue with you there, seems a heavy price is paid by aesthetics to incorporate modern technology.

Not so much modern technology, more a debatably marginal benefit in terms of heat loss especially with smaller windows.

 

[Steve Maskery]

This is all of interest to me, too, as we plan to make some changes to the back of the house, part of which is replcing aluminium patio doors with french windows. If I make them myself I know that the local building inspector will examine them. Even if I wantedto do it on the QT (and I don't), I couldn't. So I need to know that my design and construction will pass muster.

I've been thinking of laminating up for the door stiles to try to keep them straight and true. I don't know if that would actually wortk in practice though. Another option is not to use softwood but to use something like Idigbo. Never used before but it has been recommended to me.

I want to mak it all look as close a match as possible to the style of the house (1930's mock tudor) but incorporate modern hardware like friction stays for the windows and espagnolette locking for the doors.

On a slightly different note, previewing one of the Porter books on amazon, I notice that one of the drawings has an error in it. The cross-section of the stable door shows a bevel over a rebate. The two halves would effectively be locked together! (Fig 4.10 p108).. Unless, of course, I'm missing something. What's even more interesting is that I believe the same error was made in the diagram for a stable door quite recently in GW.

I'm looking forward to anything I can learn from this discussion.
Cheers
Steve

 

[ProShop]

My only objection is the size of timber required to fit those over-spec'd double glazing units. You end up with more wood than window and they just don't look right. :evil:

Roger,
Your right of course,these windows were designed with the style of house and look just right. And replacement is possible in some areas without resorting to DG, as the saving in heat etc from single to double glaze is marginal in many cases. We had an interesting thread running on this sometime back on this forum.

The modern high spec windows do seem to suit most modern houses, not entirely my cup of tea though.

I've been thinking of laminating up for the door stiles to try to keep them straight and true. I don't know if that would actually work in practice though. Another option is not to use softwood but to use something like Idigbo. Never used before but it has been recommended to me.

Two timbers I use in door & frame construction are Douglas Fir and Hemlock, the first one being my favourite. Very straight grained hardly any knotting.

I have laminated window frames, door frames etc with good effect in the past on special jobs.

 

[beech1948]

Hi,
What we really need here is for someone who will be making a window in the near future to document it from drawings to completion for us. I am a feeling a little daunted by the idea of making my windows so some illustration would be very welcome.
regards
alan