Which Design Book?

[Random Orbital Bob]

To all the turners I would be grateful for a recommendation for a seminal work on design please. I'm now 18 months in to my turning and I reckon I've got the fundamentals. I now keep butting up against pieces that are oddly proportioned or just fail to look "quite right". My knowledge of art technique, drawing, sculpture etc is regrettably close to philistine as I've come up through the sciences. I've bumped into the classic intersection of thirds in photography and have a vague understanding of the golden ratios but what I think I need is a really good book on turning design to educate me on some of these concepts as they relate to turning.

My turning to date has been 100% intuitive and I need a different input.

I don't particularly want to go freefalling through Amazon, buying book after book so if someone already knows what "the classic" is I'd be grateful for that advice.

Many thanks

 

[Dalboy]

Don't know if you have read these.

http://www.philip-streeting.co.uk/Looking and seeing 1.pdf

http://www.philip-streeting.co.uk/Looking and seeing 2.pdf

http://www.philip-streeting.co.uk/Looking and seeing 3.pdf

 

[gregmcateer]

I really liked Mark Baker's 'Woodturning Projects - a workshop guide to shapes'

Not just design and shapes, but also the practical elements of the turning as well.

 

[Jacob]

Main thing is to look at stuff wherever you find it. Seriously "look". Ask yourself why, what, etc.
Museums are good (ceramics as well as wooden things) particularly because they have a lot of stuff made from necessity which usually entails a very efficient and practical approach. More informative than aspirational art works ("hollow forms" :lol: ).

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I just don't want to work that hard Jacob. I want someone with a lot more design brain than I have to have done all the looking at nature and figuring out what looks nice, stuck it in a book, written about it and then created a scaled drawing so I can set my calipers at the lathe. That's really where I'm coming from. I really want to turn something and that something is currently not in my head. So I want a design book that will shortcut the what looks nice bit to the scale drawing bit so I can get experience of the practical side of the turning of it. It's partly laziness and partly lack of time.

It's the turning that floats my boat, not the design I guess.

 

[Spindle]

Hi

The only 'pure' design book I have related to woodturning is this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shapes-Woodturn ... oodturners

But to be honest I've read it once and never really gone back to it.

I'm with Jacob on design - I take note, (photograph sometimes), of forms that I find pleasing. Form is not necessarily related to scale or function - for instance an aspect of a building or piece of jewellery may find it's way into a turned item.

Regards Mick

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I get that Mick, its just the time to transcribe the pleasing visual item into the dimensions that one might then turn is taking me away from the lathe. My hope is that one of the links you kind folks have posted will shortcut that for me.

I do appreciate the links and will look at them later today. As for now...10 year old's homework!!!

 

[Grahamshed]

Trouble then Rob is that you are copying someone else's opinion of what looks good rather than your own. You could end up making things you don't like and not knowing why they are supposed to be good ( does that make sense ? )
Every time I see a picture of a turning that makes me go 'WOW' I copy it into a word doc for future ref. No divider settings but it is the idea or inspiration that I would look for.

 

[Jacob]

I just don't want to work that hard Jacob. I want someone with a lot more design brain than I have to have done all the looking at nature and figuring out what looks nice, stuck it in a book, written about it and then created a scaled drawing so I can set my calipers at the lathe. That's really where I'm coming from. I really want to turn something and that something is currently not in my head. So I want a design book that will shortcut the what looks nice bit to the scale drawing bit so I can get experience of the practical side of the turning of it. It's partly laziness and partly lack of time.

It's the turning that floats my boat, not the design I guess.

Just copy stuff then. It amounts to the same thing - you end up having a feeling for what you do. You could do it by measuring and/or by eye.
It's the classic way to learn arts n crafts anyway - copy and reproduce indefinitely and you may end up with something of your own.
Or just head-down brain-off and get stuck in. Learn by the mistakes!

 

[Spindle]

the time to transcribe the pleasing visual item into the dimensions that one might then turn is taking me away from the lathe

Hi

Unless dimensions are critical I'd suggest not bothering trying to design to them. Try putting a photo of a form you like behind the lathe, (orientated to how the work will be supported whilst turned), and turn a profile to match by eye - I think you'll be surprised at how easy it is to get acceptably close to the original.

Regards Mick

 

[Grahamshed]

A good idea that.

 

[Neil Farrer]

Classic Forms, Stuart Dyas. Worth every penny of £20. Line drawings and pictures. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Classic-Forms-S ... 0854421904

 

[Philip Streeting]

There probably is not one book that will answer all the questions you might want to ask. I can, however, suggest a couple of books that may be helpful if you can describe what type of turning you are currently trying to improve e.g. bowls, spindles boxes etc.

Thanks Dalboy for noting my free publications.

I had the intention to produce a whole series of free publications for turners but received little feedback on what might be helpful so stopped a couple of years back. Maybe that's the problem of 'free' there is no way of judging what other people conceive as helpful unless they say. By that I mean there are no sales records to be able to judge popularity. For instance I started producing a publication on profiles and a publication on practical design methods for beginners but stopped. I don't think people who use free resources understand the amount of work involved.

Design for woodturning seems to come low on many turners' lists of priorities and for this reason publishers will always concentrate on the 'how to' with tools an equipment where sales can be more or less guaranteed. They pay the writer and production costs and have to make a profit so are mostly targeting beginning turners or those interested in following a particular technique, method or style of work produced by established or popular turners.

I am aware I am probably expressing a jaundiced view from an isolated standpoint.

Philip

Bob, I always seem to create problems when I contribute on Forums so if you either email or PM I will gladly help you further.

 

[KimG]

For me Richard Raffan's books "The art of turned bowls" and "Turned bowl design" are really excellent for getting a good idea of what constitutes good design, and what does not, well worth the purchase price for the first one.

The art of turned bowls

Turned bowl design

 

[Jacob]

I'd say look at as many books and references as you can but treat them all with a high degree of scepticism and make your own decisions. There are too many self claimed experts out there!

 

[Bodrighy]

Design is one of those topics that you can go on about for ever. My advice would be to have a look at Philips PDF files which are well worth a browse and also simply look at the different designs of things by googling for examples bowls. In some ways good design is better felt than telt as they say. There are a number of basic rules such as the rule of thirds etc but they are all broken at times. There simply is no easy answer and by reading books you are in danger of just accepting what one person considers good design.

Sorry not to be more positive :?

Pete

 

[woodfarmer]

Usually when I start turning I have a picture in my mind what the result would be. This often turns to just a whim as I tend to follow the wood and can't really predict the shape at which it will finish. I have one natural edged bowl that is "wrong" not entirely sure why but think it is too tall. Wife likes it but I don't care for it at all.
That offset bay "bowl" I wasn't sure about, but it has grown on me , now I really like it enough to one day try to replicate the idea.

I have an idea for a project at the moment, but only for two small elements of it. The curve in the middle and a constructional method.

I think Bob you should go with your instincts, copying exactly is very constrictive. Leastwise it is to me. But then I am logical and mechanical, turning is my one means t make something that might just look good as well as being functional.

 

[procell]

I normally just chuck up the wood and let it tell me what shape it should end up. Am I doing something wrong?

 

[Woodmonkey]

I normally just chuck up the wood and let it tell me what shape it should end up. Am I doing something wrong?

Same here, I let the wood dictate the shape, as often you don't know what's inside until you start cutting. I find it very intuitive.

 

[Dalboy]

I normally just chuck up the wood and let it tell me what shape it should end up. Am I doing something wrong?

I normally just chuck up the wood and let it tell me what shape it should end up. Am I doing something wrong?

Same here, I let the wood dictate the shape, as often you don't know what's inside until you start cutting. I find it very intuitive.

What you both mean that you do not draw it out 6 times to scale until you get it right then turn it to within a cats whiskey of the drawing before putting a finish on it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: