Green ash ladderback chair

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Sheffield Tony

Ghost of the disenchanted
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I posted here the process of making my first greenwood chair last summer:

http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/first-chair-t82109.html

That one was a Philip Clisset style spindle back. There are a lot of things I liked about greenwood chair making. One of them is that there is a lot of working by hand and eye; a lot less obsession with tape measures and try square - if it looks right, it is right (or near enough). I decided that I'd like to make a "set" of chairs, though not exactly a matching set; the plan is to make them match in the sense of being all the same materials (Ash and seagrass), same height and overall size and proportion, but each in a different style. So my second chair is to be a ladder back.

Here's some of the pole lathe turned components. I haven't taken many pictures as I went along this time, because the methods are much the same as I used in the earlier project.

spindles2.jpg


From the top, front stretcher with twiddly bits, front seat rail, then side rails x 4. There are a few bits missing here, although there is a lot less turnery in this one than the spindle back. Here the back will be made from slats cleft from a log, and left to dry before planing to thickness.

For the spindleback, I made all the rails and stretchers the same shape, like the front seat rail here (2nd down). This time I'm doing it differently; the seat rails stay the same for ease of seat weaving, but for the other rails, I've kept the centre at 24mm diameter with a smooth taper down to the tenon. I tried this on a stool and liked the look of it, but it has another couple of advantages - without the well defined shoulder, you can trim them slightly to length without it being visually apparent - useful for adjusting them to meet the steam-bent legs. You can see that there are two pairs at different lengths to accomodate the expected outward curve of the back legs, but steam bending is not a precise science an a bit of wriggle room is good.

The other advantage is efficient use of wood; to get the parallel rail, I need to split the billet into pieces a bit bigger than 24mm over the full length to be sure to get a piece without the odd flat facet left on it after turning. But with the tapered version, if the split runs off line a bit, or there is a slight curve to the piece, I can still use it if the middle is fat enough to get the 24mm thickest part, and the ends are not too thin.

Another thing I like about green woodworking is how quickly you can go from a pile of components to something close to a finished chair - it is just a matter of boring holes with a hand brace and whacking it together with a big mallet ! On Sunday afternoon and an hour yesterday I put it all together:

chair2-1.jpg


What remains now is to trim the back legs to length; they are left about 1/2" too long at the bottom (for levelling) and there is maybe an excess 2" at the top (makes it less likely to split during the fitting of the back slats). It will need oiling, waxing, and then a seat weaving.

For the spindle back I followed a Clisset design as detailed in Jack Hill's Country Chair Making - an excellent book that makes complexity seem plain. For this design I took some ideas from Mike Abbott's Going with the Grain - notably the bending of the back legs. The Clissett designs have a sharpish bend near the seat level, and are curved straight back, so the back legs are parallel when viewed from the front. This one has the back legs bent in a continuous arc using a former which is a 45" radius circular arc. The legs are fitted rotated by 20 degrees, so that the rear legs and the back flare outwards a bit, lending a little extra stability, a wider back at shoulder height, and (I think) a more elegant look. it also makes judging the drilling angles for the joints a bit more tricky :?
 

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Brilliant, I look forward to seeing the finished chair =D>
 
Looks really good. I took a 5 day course with Mike Abbott and came away with a chair. Well worth it, and a nice chap. Did you find it easy to source green ash?
 
I like that a lot! Classic simplicity. (But I don't mean to suggest that it's simple to make!)
 
That looks good Tony, well done =D>

I made a very similar chair on a green woodwork course with Gudrun Leitz at Clissett Wood http://www.greenwoodwork.co.uk/. You turned up on the Monday and received a 4ft length of Ash tree and came away on the Friday with a completed chair. I planned to return the following year to complete the rush seat but fell off a ladder so had to have the rushing done for me. Sixteen years on and the chair is still as sound as the day it was made, no glue, no nails!

Are you going to do the seat yourself?

Regards Keith
 
Interesting to hear that a few others have had a go at green woodworking - have you continued after the initial course, or was it a one off experience / bit of fun ?

I came to green woodworking through a one day introductory course with Mark Allery, which my wife suggested after I enjoyed watching the woodworking episode of Monty Don's Mastercrafts TV series. That course turned out to be the starting point for a new local group of the APTGW (Associatiom of Pole lathe turners and Green woodworkers), and it is through that connection I source most of my wood - it is easy to get small stuff from friends and a local tree surgeon. Much harder to get the 4' log needed for a chair; that really needs to have grown in a wood so that it is straight and knot free. The log I used for this chair was from near the bottom of a 10" trunk, and had a bit of a natural curve to it - I followed that curve, so for the back legs it was almost there already, I only had to enhance it a bit by steam bending.

The seat I will weave myself using seagrass as I did for the first one; I know it breaks with tradition a bit, but although I could get elm bast, it looks a bit hard on the hands (and possibly the behind !).

Hopefully I'll get to do a bit more on it next weekend. At the moment it is in the cool garage, drying slowly.
 
That's a great looking chair =D>
Think twice about cutting the height down on the back legs, I personally like the look of it as is.
 
Sheffield Tony":31eue2un said:
Interesting to hear that a few others have had a go at green woodworking - have you continued after the initial course, or was it a one off experience / bit of fun ?

.
I made a pole lathe after the course but then my son got interested and he could get green wood so he used it a lot making chairs etc. I went on to an electric lathe :oops: which was great fun but still preferred green woodworking which is a lot better for the lungs :lol:

On my to-do list this year is a shave horse combined with a spoon carving bench so it's back to the green stuff.

Good luck with the weaving.

Regards Keith
 
Good looking chair Tony, well done.
Out of interest do you use each leg, at the lathe, or will you suffer an un-balance as some bar maids apparently do?
xy
 
They're both lovely chairs, Tony. I'd not seen your previous WIP. Thanks for re-posting.

My brother and I keep meaning to go to the green chair course, but somehow or other haven't got it sorted, partly as it seems so damned popular!!!

Greg
 
It took me longer to get around to seat weaving than I had expected, but I've finished it now:

chair-2-finished.jpg


I went for seagrass, with a simple splayed weave (because that is all I know how to do !).

I have taken your comment on board, n0legs, about the back legs. I was going to cut them down to just above the crest of the top back slat, but after looking at it for while and discussion with my aesthetic consultant (DW) I decided to leave them a bit longer. Some had to come off because it was the end of the original log, which was a bit stained by exposure to the elements, but only about an inch.

xy - I think I swap treadling legs according to what position I need to be in when doing the ends and twiddly bits, but I suspect that I spend most of my time treadling with my right leg. It is the left, that is taking your bodyweight, that gets tired though !

Keith - I am glad to hear that the ladder fall hasn't put an end to green woodworking - hope you get back to it. I really like the peace, and working outdoors. Last weekend we were working at the Wimpole scythe festival by the folly on the Wimpole estate. Wonderful spot with great views - it beats a dusty workshop and screaming power tools anyday for me !
 

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That looks even better now it's finished. Lightweight, strong, practical - a lovely job all round.
 
You've made a lovely job of that Tony, well done =D>

I started green woodworking when I went to a craft fayre at Wrest Park in Bedfordshire where Gudrun Leitz was demonstrating and decided to go on one of her courses in Herefordshire.

I agree about the peace and no dusty workshop. No dust masks or ear defenders with the green stuff (hammer)

Regards Keith
 
Thanks guys.

Nick, you may be pleased to hear that I used the drawknife you gave me on this job. I quite like it; a nice size and holds its edge well.

AndyT":t9p8csu1 said:
Lightweight, strong, practical
I'm glad you said that. The lightness is something I'm aiming for, and the slight bit of springiness that goes with it. That's what I was drawing from Mike Abbott's chair designs which have a nice light elegance to them, and manage to look quite modern whilst being traditional. Older designs like the Clisset ones often look a bit clunky in comparison.
The legs still look a bit heavier than I'd like, but it is an issue of getting a long enough tenon into them. I turned / shaved the legs to 44mm diameter when green, so after drying they would be 40-42mm oval. Using an auger bit without the lead screw breaking through limits the joint to about 30mm deep. On this chair I drilled with the auger bit most of the way, then switched to a Forstner bit (still in the hand brace) to get it a few mm deeper. I really want to have 1 1/4" (32mm) minimum.

Woodchips2":t9p8csu1 said:
I started green woodworking when I went to a craft fayre at Wrest Park in Bedfordshire where Gudrun Leitz was demonstrating
Well there's a coincidence. Our business is based at Wrest Park, which is where I am as I type. I've worked on this site for almost 22 years now !
 
[/quote]
Well there's a coincidence. Our business is based at Wrest Park, which is where I am as I type. I've worked on this site for almost 22 years now ![/quote]

It's a small world Tony. Around 2002/2003 I worked about a day a week out of Wrest Park dealing with the Luton Vauxhall closure. We may even have met :lol: It's a lovely location to work from.

Regards Keith
 

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