MMUK
Established Member
chippy1970":cx35kwyz said:
Must admit I've not experienced that problem, though my PS doesn't get much use at the moment.
When did the world go mad for Festool?
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Must admit I've not experienced that problem, though my PS doesn't get much use at the moment.
Guggs
Established Member
Festool and Felder are two of the most overrated machines / hand held machines going .
Great designs at a premium , till they go wrong . Then you need a premium to repair them .
Great designs at a premium , till they go wrong . Then you need a premium to repair them .
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
I have to say that specifically for professional, site based use, I'm reasonably convinced of the value of Festool now. Certainly more than I was at the beginning of this thread. Doug made a few good points, many of the little integration touch points in their system take a lot of the faff out of site work (like the power cables and extraction hoses fitting every tool facilitating quick swaps for multiple operations while remaining dust free). That time saving and convenience is clearly a very nice touch. Several people have also commented on how robust the tools are. Dropping into water and from ladders whilst having no impact on their performance is a pretty good track record. Again, what comes across is that desire for confidence that the very things which earn your crust aren't likely to let you down any time soon. If a broken tool costs you even a single days labour then it does rather begin to justify the premium.
On the other hand I'm also sensing that feeling isn't uniform across the entire range. My sense is their chopsaw is just too dear when compared to it's advantage over competition in what is a very commoditised section of the tool market. Perhaps also true of their drill/drivers?? But where they have unique patents like the domino, they win hands down.
This must mean the dick waving is confined to the amateurs then......I'm an amateur and I have a domino.....hang ooonnnnnn that cant be right :shock:
On the other hand I'm also sensing that feeling isn't uniform across the entire range. My sense is their chopsaw is just too dear when compared to it's advantage over competition in what is a very commoditised section of the tool market. Perhaps also true of their drill/drivers?? But where they have unique patents like the domino, they win hands down.
This must mean the dick waving is confined to the amateurs then......I'm an amateur and I have a domino.....hang ooonnnnnn that cant be right :shock:
MMUK
Established Member
I don't see how the power cable thing is a time saver? Other tools have a fixed cable so don't need swapping out all the time.
If a product has a unique design that has a clear advantage in use then you can charge a premium and I quite understand folks buying them.
Can't see anything on a Festool drill though that warrants charging even a quid more.
Can't see anything on a Festool drill though that warrants charging even a quid more.
MMUK":22cfm2mi said:
Saves time because the mains plug end of the cable is plugged into the vac which is on auto, so you don't have to keep going to the vac to switch it on and off. I suppose with your fixed cables you could plug them all into a multi-socket extension which is plugged into the vac so that any one of them will turn it on and off. You can buy a hose from Festool which has a cable built in, or you can just use velcro cable ties to attach it yourself.
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
what caused me to make that post was re-reading the entire thread late last night. Interesting, I've pretty much never done that before. Usually I just wade back in and pick up on any fresh points made but with more or less the same opinion I had at the start. By re-reading it all at once you get a completely different perspective because you load all the view points up at once and you're not too busy worrying about defending any particular point of view! I think it allowed me to be more detached and objective. What really stood out was how the professionals defended them. If I was to use one term to summarise that defence it would be "industrial strength". Their living depends on getting the job done, quickly and with minimum downtime, fuss, mess. What came across to me was how Festool support that ideology and have gone the extra mile over and above the usual competition and that enough folk are prepared to pay the premium for that extra mile because they can trust the tools of their trade wont fail them. But not with the Kapex 
Random Orbital Bob":3a2y9cii said:what caused me to make that post was re-reading the entire thread late last night. Interesting, I've pretty much never done that before. Usually I just wade back in and pick up on any fresh points made but with more or less the same opinion I had at the start. By re-reading it all at once you get a completely different perspective because you load all the view points up at once and you're not too busy worrying about defending any particular point of view! I think it allowed me to be more detached and objective. What really stood out was how the professionals defended them. If I was to use one term to summarise that defence it would be "industrial strength". Their living depends on getting the job done, quickly and with minimum downtime, fuss, mess. What came across to me was how Festool support that ideology and have gone the extra mile over and above the usual competition and that enough folk are prepared to pay the premium for that extra mile because they can trust the tools of their trade wont fail them. But not with the Kapex
I've got the domino and the TS55. I have thought about the Kapex and might yet make the plunge. The two things I'm led to believe make it worth it for me are footprint (being able to back it up against a wall) and the main thing is dust extraction. Those two things are great for hobbyists in small spaces. That and the fact it will hold it's value if I ever wanted to sell on anyway. Is there an alternative to the Kapex which has both of those features to that level and costs significantly less? If so I'd like to know.
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
Good points on the Kapex. DX on chopsaws is notoriously difficult to manage so if they've cracked that it has a value as does space against a wall. And you know, if it were even £800, I might be able to make a case for combined Xmas/birthday/Fathers day/gone nuts day. But that 1200 number is like a kaleidoscope in my eyes...round and round and round....
Does it have a laser thingummy (never used one myself but like the idea) and does it work ie is it accurate?
Does it have a laser thingummy (never used one myself but like the idea) and does it work ie is it accurate?
pike":14e9ufoo said:
Bosch and Hitachi both do a SCMS that doesn't need clearance at the back:
http://www.hitachipowertools.com/index/ ... 1,53&p=549
http://www.axminster.co.uk/bosch-gcm-12 ... -mitre-saw
Both were around 2/3 the price of a Kapex last time I looked.
I believe Steve Maskery has the Bosch.
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
I've just watched the Bosch video. For £725....that's a very very nice piece of kit!! That new design of rear arm is superb.
Why Festool? A few thoughts in no particular order, from an 'Amateur' inasmuch as I don't work for hire, although like many I'm a serial house-buyer/renovator/seller who became thoroughly fed up with the workmanship of many 'Professionals'. I'm a Professional in a different field and frankly the professional standards of many tradespeople, and the dross they inflict on the paying public, is beyond satire. Don't get me wrong, where I can find them I use good tradespeople and I'm happy to pay them for good work.
- Space and organisation - more a virtue of the Tanos T-lock systainers, but well thought out inserts help
- Ergonomics - across the range this is well done
- Dust control in use - outstanding, as somebody noted it's not just the performance of the extractor but the design of tool shrouds etc.
- Domino - superfluous to comment further, it's a great idea well executed, you soon forget the price-tag
- TS55 - outstanding, enough said
- The tracks, expensive for Alloy extrusions, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating
- Festool drills are often knocked - the electronic torque control (at least on the PDC-18) is fantastic, the hammer action is better than any similar sized cordless I've used and means I only need to haul out the SDS for larger stuff, the battery lasts ages
- The Centrotec 'system' approach is great once you take the plunge/bite the bullet
- MFT3 - expensive, but particularly with a few bench-dogs allows for outstanding versatility and precision in a compact, portable system
- OF1010 - lightweight, powerful, smooth plunge action
- The speed clamps, mixed feelings, maybe I'm a bit cack-handed, sometimes they're great, sometimes they give me the hump
- The new oscillating tool, no obvious reason to buy it over a Fein (particularly if you get it in a Systainer)
- Sanders, at least for ROS, the Mirka DEROS for me wins by a nose
- 3 year warranty, well worth having although many of the better players are offering this now
- Lastly, but for me a significant consideration, made by European workers in good conditions; every buying choice we make has a social and environmental impact, where I can afford/justify it I'll always try to buy from European and American manufacturers.
So overall is my investment in Festool worth it? None of your damn business!
Is the quality of my work and the impact on both me and the area in which I'm working enhanced by using Festool (and similar) tools? Damn straight it is!
- Space and organisation - more a virtue of the Tanos T-lock systainers, but well thought out inserts help
- Ergonomics - across the range this is well done
- Dust control in use - outstanding, as somebody noted it's not just the performance of the extractor but the design of tool shrouds etc.
- Domino - superfluous to comment further, it's a great idea well executed, you soon forget the price-tag
- TS55 - outstanding, enough said
- The tracks, expensive for Alloy extrusions, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating
- Festool drills are often knocked - the electronic torque control (at least on the PDC-18) is fantastic, the hammer action is better than any similar sized cordless I've used and means I only need to haul out the SDS for larger stuff, the battery lasts ages
- The Centrotec 'system' approach is great once you take the plunge/bite the bullet
- MFT3 - expensive, but particularly with a few bench-dogs allows for outstanding versatility and precision in a compact, portable system
- OF1010 - lightweight, powerful, smooth plunge action
- The speed clamps, mixed feelings, maybe I'm a bit cack-handed, sometimes they're great, sometimes they give me the hump
- The new oscillating tool, no obvious reason to buy it over a Fein (particularly if you get it in a Systainer)
- Sanders, at least for ROS, the Mirka DEROS for me wins by a nose
- 3 year warranty, well worth having although many of the better players are offering this now
- Lastly, but for me a significant consideration, made by European workers in good conditions; every buying choice we make has a social and environmental impact, where I can afford/justify it I'll always try to buy from European and American manufacturers.
So overall is my investment in Festool worth it? None of your damn business!
Is the quality of my work and the impact on both me and the area in which I'm working enhanced by using Festool (and similar) tools? Damn straight it is!
Mark A
Established Member
KevM":t02yyyp6 said:
You too, eh?
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
righto...I wasn't actually looking anywhere other than another poster who mentioned that price somewhere. So in fact it's price is comparable to the Bosch.
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