What expert do I need?

[DrPhill]

To plan, and execute the removal and replacement of the downstairs part of a chimney breast.

Our new property has a room that was formerly two. In one corner of each of the original rooms was a triangular chimney breast. Now that the wall has been (mostly) removed there is an odd triangular structure in the middle of one wall, with two fireplaces in it. Weird.

So we wish to remove this structure and replace it with a couple of pillars either side of a flat hearth. The pillars will need a beam across to support the weight of the chimney above.

What specialist should I seek out to quote for the work? Something more than a builder, but maybe not as much as an architect?

Any advice would be welcome.

Thanks

Phill

 

[MickCheese]

If I understand your dilemma then I would suggest any competent builder and a structural engineer.

I would have thought the supports for the upper breasts will be gallows brackets.

I am no builder but did remove a chimney Brest a few years ago and as far as I know it's still holding up.

Mick

 

[DrPhill]

Thanks for the prompt reply Mick

If I understand your dilemma then I would suggest any competent builder and a structural engineer.

Yep, that sounds about right. I have no competence in this area - so need the experts.

I would have thought the supports for the upper breasts will be gallows brackets.

Maybe for normal case, but the new fireplace will be centred where the old wall was, and may need something to support the upper floor where the wall was removed. Currently supported with timber beam which seems to have done the job for 20+ years. There may be no support needed, which would be nice. But if support is needed, then it will need to start between the two pillars, so a 'lintel' across between them may be needed.

I am no builder but did remove a chimney Brest a few years ago and as far as I know it's still holding up.

 

[RogerBoyle]

Structural engineer and then a builder
I'd be surprised if they ( building Control ) will allow gallows brackets these days as they tend to over engineer and cover their backsides more often than not

 

[gregmcateer]

Structural Engineer - and they are amazingly good value, IME. We have just extended, including back of house being removed, as well as a chimney breast and fireplace, (after supprt, I hasten to add!)
Then a good recommended builder, as advised above
Best of luck.
Greg

 

[Woodchips2]

Structural engineer and then a builder
I'd be surprised if they ( building Control ) will allow gallows brackets these days as they tend to over engineer and cover their backsides more often than not

Building control will no doubt require calculations for the load-bearing beam so the engineer is your man. He should save you the cost of the fees in designing something economical that is safe. Be prepared for the design to use a steel beam because if you had a fire and a timber beam ignited you may find the chimney breast above coming down.

Regards Keith

 

[fluffflinger]

Structural engineer, then DIY or builder. That's what we did when we went open plan in our cottage and that included removing a chimney breast and popping in a couple of steels.

As previously mentioned it will be a no to gallows brackets these days I'm afraid.

 

[DrPhill]

Building control will no doubt require calculations for the load-bearing beam so the engineer is your man. He should save you the cost of the fees in designing something economical that is safe. Be prepared for the design to use a steel beam because if you had a fire and a timber beam ignited you may find the chimney breast above coming down.

Regards Keith

That is pretty much as expected, thanks. Steel beams are the usual solution - we are prepared for that. The end result is almost certain to be less of a visual challenge than the current arrangement (which may itself be in contravention of current regs). Also, there will be a woodburner in the centre of the house with a bit of mass around it to act as a thermal store.

Thanks to all who replied. Structural engineer and builder.

Phill

 

[pip1954]

hi dr phill i don't think the others have read what you wrote i would not be surprised if you have to put a foundation in and build your piers up from that it depends how big the base is for your old fire place and weather you will be within the same area but they are right you need an arc or structural engineer the wall will need an rsj to hold up what ever sits on top of it maybe the upper floor, then you may need an other one across the new breast it depends on several questions like will the new breast be plastered if it is you maybe able to put a concrete pad in it then plaster over it to support the rsj hope this helps any other question you can message .
pip

 

[Lons]

What the others said (including pip). Might be worth sounding out your local Building Inspector first as they may be able to recommend people. Some of them freelance as well and might be prepared to do the calcs for you.

Bob

 

[DrPhill]

Some more interesting ideas there. Thankyou.
For those who want slightly more detail, here is a back-of-an-envelope plan of the before and after. I guess the piers willl be slightly outside the footprint of the current fireplaces. There is no brick wall above (converted bungalow), so the wall may not be load-bearing (apart from chimney stack).

 

[dickm]

Just to sound a small word of caution - check around a few folk about their experience with local structural engineers. When we had solar PV installed, I wanted to do belt and braces so commissioned a structural engineer to check the roof. He did b****r all as far as we can tell, just sent a letter saying "there should be no problems with the roof". Talked to his professional institution, who, off the record, said his conduct was totally unprofessional and recommeded me to take out a formal complaint. In the end, this was just too much hassle.

But just because someone has letters after their name and membership of a professional body doesn't necessarily mean they will do a good job.

 

[MickCheese]

Sorry didn't read the op properly.

Be prepared for one of the dirtiest jobs in the house.

Good luck

Mick

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

The issue of pouring foundations underneath piers (or not) will entirely depend on the load being carried through from the structure above. That's why the structural engineer is critical. If you get that wrong, you create a subsidence risk. I've extended threee times in different properties and the engineer typically costs around £300 for which you get all the calcs plus a drawing and the spec for the RSJ which you can give directly to the builder for the works. Not such a biggy for peace of mind.

Do ask around so you get a decent one though