What do you charge - bathroom locks/doors
- Thread starter Mjward
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I do indeed. So this is why I contacted the tradesman the other day, to give him the required 7 days to rectify the situation which given the joint issue equates to replacing the doors and suddenly acquiring the skills to be called a carpenter...
Once the 7 days are up I have to leave negative feedback then 7 days after that I can claim up to maximum £1000. The doors alone were £1500 but at least helps soften the blow if i get help that way
It’s still a bit of a poor effort by checkatrade that you can only claim up to £1000 -what if it was a 10k job does the same apply. If he fails to put the job right is he then removed from their website. Also you have to wait a total of 14 days before you can claim upto 1k
I think the problem is that Checkatrade get paid roughly GBP600 per year per paid member i.e. doesn't change based on job value. So my guess is this GBP1000 max guarantee is what they've worked out is a level where it minimises actual costs to themselves without getting into bigger insurance type guarantees. Gives a nice advertising number for the small jobs but I suspect they will fight tooth and nail for every penny I claim but will keep this post updated as think would be useful to follow the process. Anything above the GBP1000 would have to go the small claims route but that cost is quite small in the grand scheme, i.e. GBP70 for a claim between GBP500 and GBP1000.
I've reread the guarantee and it doesn't clearly state the a tradesperson in this instance will be removed. Not sure if they operate a three strike policy or don't care but there is no mention of it. Interestingly, now looking at it from this angle, the site certainly seems to favour the trade vs the client as not only is there no mention of penalties to the former, but clients are restricted to making one claim every 12 months which makes zero sense.
I've reread the guarantee and it doesn't clearly state the a tradesperson in this instance will be removed. Not sure if they operate a three strike policy or don't care but there is no mention of it. Interestingly, now looking at it from this angle, the site certainly seems to favour the trade vs the client as not only is there no mention of penalties to the former, but clients are restricted to making one claim every 12 months which makes zero sense.
johnnyb
Established Member
I think the problem will be proving its a poor job. who defines what is and is not acceptable? like record power with the maxi 26 they offered a five year warranty but the machine itself was dreadful(robust enough to last but useless as an accurate machine)
your doors swing and close( presumably) there gappy around the hardware but they may suggest filler. you brought the doors so the tradesman can't be held liable for those. only for the work he's carried out. without defined standards in a contract it's really tricky.
your doors swing and close( presumably) there gappy around the hardware but they may suggest filler. you brought the doors so the tradesman can't be held liable for those. only for the work he's carried out. without defined standards in a contract it's really tricky.
Reading between the lines of your situation I don’t think they are removed or even penalised. Maybe a warning of some or they are charged the £1000 but it certainly explains why so many customers I’ve dealt with have done what experts advise and find tradesmen via this type of organisation. What then happens to the negative review you have to leave as part of your claim- is it visible for all to see or does it disappear into the vaults of checkatrade never to be seen again. It seams that the average customer has little protection from rouge traders or shoddy workmanship than waiting several weeks to maybe get part of their money back. If you don’t get a satisfactory resolution then are you able to go via trading standards . The doors I fitted recently were quite expensive and certainly out of my price range to replace in the event of a major fail on my part . When I trimmed the bottom of the door the veneer splintered badly on the top side of the door - it was a complete mess and failure on my part and the only thing that saved the day was I need to loose 20 mm and the plan was 10mm of top and bottom so out came the marking knife to score the veneer 1st on the uppermost side of the door - disaster avoided and a happy customer. I think it’s all down to the skill of the individual and their pride and integrity to produce quality work and in the event of a un repairable mistake then it’s time to fess up and get the customer involved to agree on a solution. Honesty goes an extremely long way with customers and they will often surprise you in what they will accept because you have told them of the issue and not left them to discover it for themselves.
johnnyb
Established Member
if I'm given a job to replace the door and frame I'll shoot for absolute perfection knowing that is almost unobtanium. reality is that there arewhats varying degrees of the best I can do depending on how I'm feeling and the situation I'm found in. what's a tiny inevitable gap to one is a yawning chasm to another. there must be an grey area where past that point is terrible before that point is acceptable. it's like a moving goalpost on a moving pitch. who decides. irrelevant to all that is the nature of all internet lead businesses. Trust pilot is a huge con. if 1 person puts a poor review the employ 15 people to post good reviews making it redundant. rated people are the same only people will get there friends and relatives to post glowing reviews of non existant jobs. one job springs to mind it was fitting 10 doors. we did it and the guy rightly I guess gave us 4 out of five. Well our score went from 5 to 4.something I'm to old to be pineappled faking stuff so left it. but 4 for him was a good job as he was happy( I think he knocked a point off because we would charge him to remove the old doors)
Agree and unfortunately "skill and pride" are almost unquantifiable which is why it is so hard to find the quality most of us want. Another dynamic is that non-paying clients must be on the rise as there are an increasing number of trades demanding payment on the day of completion, which leads to a rushed check of the workmanship and quite often payment before all issues are identified.
Spot on. To the point that I raised to the joiner in this scenario "why haven't you chiseled the hinges in the frame?" and the response was that he had never done that and no client had ever raised it before. I'm definitely at one end of the spectrum when it comes to the quality I'm looking for, particularly when I'm paying GBP540 for a day's work. But I guess a lot of clients wouldn't look at every part of the door fitting process and have an idea in mind of what a good standard is etc. On the internet review front, I am coming to realise it's only when the reviews are in there thousands that it's worth anything. As you say, doesn't take much for an individual to rack up 50 glowing reviews from friends and family.
johnnyb
Established Member
they wouldn't bother with 50 maybe 4 or 5 at 5 star. then never mention it to any other customers therefore preserving your 5 star rating. People are so lazy that's all they look at. 5 star he's the one.
your right people have had no experience of what a good job is.
I had a company called berwyn slate do me some worktops Friday. superb job. they sent out a freelance digital templater. made the tops. sent 2 guys out to fit. they weren't friendly at all( almost the opposite) but they did a great job. and the price was comparable to a quartz worktop with a ply template. that's all you can ask.
your right people have had no experience of what a good job is.
I had a company called berwyn slate do me some worktops Friday. superb job. they sent out a freelance digital templater. made the tops. sent 2 guys out to fit. they weren't friendly at all( almost the opposite) but they did a great job. and the price was comparable to a quartz worktop with a ply template. that's all you can ask.
My current in progress job (I’m the customer) just had a wobble. It’s been going great. But discovered at the weekend they have installed the bathroom cabinets too far to the right. The units are supposed to butt up to a tall unit enclosing the boiler on the left. Sizes of the units were all chosen to fit nicely. There was a set of boxed in pipes to the right that would have left a gap at the right hand side of the units that set the positions. The builders actually did a great job and removed the boxing and hid the pipes. The problem is they then shoved the units right into the corner against the now clear wall. That’s moved it all to the right by 75 to 100mm or so. The end unit is a toilet unit and now sitting on the loo results in your knees hitting the towel rail. This is blindingly obvious when you look at it. It’s now going to have to be removed and repositioned. I sincerely hope the new flooring goes under the toilet pan. They also managed to chip one of the unit doors and the shower unit has a 5degree slope. My daughter said they let the ‘apprentice’ fit the units so that’s probably the root of the problem but now I’m going to have to deal with the builder to get it done right. Annoyingly I had a specific discussion about the position of the units as I’m going to be building and fitting the custom boiler cupboard.
Edit:
Well my faith in trades has just been given a very positive boost. The slope on the shower was fixed this morning before I even contacted them about it. One of the team were in to tidy up and to finish the floor and did it there and then, as well as spotting a drip on the basin waste which I had missed. They had already ordered a replacement door for the unit and they are coming back in next week to move the units to the right position. I even got an email from the builder sent from the airport as he is flying of on holiday today telling me he had sent his second in command round to ensure it gets done. That was shortly followed by a call from my daughter saying he had turned up to see what needed doing. As suspected it was a genuine slip up due to removing the boxing on the pipes.
Edit:
Well my faith in trades has just been given a very positive boost. The slope on the shower was fixed this morning before I even contacted them about it. One of the team were in to tidy up and to finish the floor and did it there and then, as well as spotting a drip on the basin waste which I had missed. They had already ordered a replacement door for the unit and they are coming back in next week to move the units to the right position. I even got an email from the builder sent from the airport as he is flying of on holiday today telling me he had sent his second in command round to ensure it gets done. That was shortly followed by a call from my daughter saying he had turned up to see what needed doing. As suspected it was a genuine slip up due to removing the boxing on the pipes.
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Now that is interesting. When visiting friends at their home in Crewe, many years back, I noticed 'with my 'joiners hat on' that all their internal doors were hung this way. And theirs was a Victorian place.
I could only assume that this was standard for that area, at that time. I'm not sure that it would be taught now for doors in dwellings, though it is an option - and one I use myself - for kitchen cabinet, doors.
In some ways it makes more sense to chisel into the door and not the frame. You are more likely to replace a door than a frame. I have never seen it done though.
Doug71
Established Member
A joiner I know chops the hinges double into internal doors whenever he can, I do it on small cupboards etc but not on internal doors. You might as well just use flush hinges if you chop them in double as the whole point of a butt hinge is that the hinge mortises for the leaves help support the weight.
Old school joiners will tell you that a properly fitted door will still work even when you take the screws out of the hinges, this definitely isn't the case if you chop them in double.
The hinge shown in the photo isn't even flat back to the casing, the knuckle on it is riding on the architrave.
Old school joiners will tell you that a properly fitted door will still work even when you take the screws out of the hinges, this definitely isn't the case if you chop them in double.
The hinge shown in the photo isn't even flat back to the casing, the knuckle on it is riding on the architrave.
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I moved into my flat over 25 years ago and the airing cupboard doors and the gas meter cupboard were all hung this way -the flats were built mid 60,s . I think it’s an older method from years gone by . Edit- These too were small to medium doors
I find it makes for quite an ugly look, when used with 4 inch butts. The housing tends to look too deep, and the edge often has to be chamfered to allow access for the opposing unhoused, hinge-flap.
I can't say that it's really that noticeable when used on small cabinet doors - it is certainly a lot quicker. Maybe it is just one of those regional variations, that has persisted in some parts of the country.
Sgian Dubh
Established Member
Sinking the hinge leaves into both the door lining and the edge of the door prevents the door from dropping under its own weight: the short edges of the hinge leaves effectively sit on a narrow ledge at the bottom on the lining side and, at top, underneath a small return, shelf, or overhang on the door side. Of course, this matters much more with heavy doors such as fire doors than lightweight hollow core or egg box doors.
I've never seen any site joiner/carpenter sink both leaves into, in the first case, either the door's edge or, in the second, into the lining, nor have I ever come across this as a generally accepted practice.
The images I've seen earlier in this thread of the job that's been done puts me in mind of someone that doesn't even qualify as an unskilled hedge hack. Slainte.
I've never seen any site joiner/carpenter sink both leaves into, in the first case, either the door's edge or, in the second, into the lining, nor have I ever come across this as a generally accepted practice.
The images I've seen earlier in this thread of the job that's been done puts me in mind of someone that doesn't even qualify as an unskilled hedge hack. Slainte.
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This is how things should be done-always nice to hear of a positive outcome to a potentially difficult situation..
Ollie78
Established Member
What the actual Fuuuu*****. That is ridiculous.
Ollie78
Established Member
This is partly true but if you show these pictures to any joiner/ cabinet maker/ carpenter/ compitent diy person/ plumber/ basically anyone with functional eyes they will immediately know it is an absolute mess of a job.
For me the proof is the photos, thats enough. The real problem is that the person who did the job either feels its acceptable or has absolutely zero shame, not sure which is worse.
Ollie
These hinges have been chopped double into the door and it just looks a mess. Plus hasn't bothered to chop back any of architrave etc where hinge hits so, well it's just a whole bodge isn't it.
To those who know what they are doing, the photos are an obvious sign it's gone wrong. Unfortunately I think there are a growing number of "handy men" who are giving themselves the title of joiner without the accompanying skills. They build up a decent reputation from putting up fencing, building plant boxes, hanging a shelf and for the sake of another pay day don't have the decency to say "that's beyond my skill set".
To those who know what they are doing, the photos are an obvious sign it's gone wrong. Unfortunately I think there are a growing number of "handy men" who are giving themselves the title of joiner without the accompanying skills. They build up a decent reputation from putting up fencing, building plant boxes, hanging a shelf and for the sake of another pay day don't have the decency to say "that's beyond my skill set".
