Wenzloff & Gramercy

[Harbo]

Here's a photo comparison of a couple of pairs of Wenzloff and Gramercy saws:

Top to bottom - Gramercy Carcase, Wenzloff Carcase, Gramercy D/T, Wenzloff D/T

D/T's

Carcase.

They are all quite different in various ways as can be seen from the photos but perform equally well.


Rod

 

[Ray Gardiner]

Hi Rod,

Thanks for posting that, it's a perfect illustration of something that I have been recently discussing with reference to saw handle shaping.

The other main difference is that the Gramercy uses a much lighter folded back, which makes for a very light saw, this is I understand a deliberate design feature.

The Gramercy looks to my eye to be too blockish sharp edged, lacks that "organic look" whereas the Wenzloff is (to my taste) absolutely spot on for shape.

The saw screws are also recessed a little too deep in the Gramercy.

Do you mind if I use one of these pics in another forum? It's this thread http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=89944


Regards
Ray

 

[Harbo]

Hi Ray

No problems about the photos - help yourself.

The set screw problem is down to me really - I used a thicker piece of wood than recommended to make them a bit chunkier. The screws come with a washer which requires a deeper hole than stated in the instructions for the nut to bite. When I get time I intend to play about with this issue. I also rounded them off more than shown on the template but they are still not as rounded as the Wenzloffs.

Looking at the Wenzloffs more closely, it appears that the handle is sanded (belt?) after the screws are fitted and the brass ground flush to the surface?

Rod

 

[Joel Moskowitz]

Ray, and others,
It should be noted that the blades are Gramercy blades but these are kits that have been very nicely assembled by Harbo. I think they are very very nice examples of the kits but not the same handles as our production saws.

 

[Ray Gardiner]

Hi Joel, Rod,

I guess that's one of the advantages of a kit, that you can tweak the handle to suit your own hand and profile preferences. (Nice job with the kit BTW)

This is a Gramercy handle, that is a bit more my personal preference.
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merc ... _F_big.gif

As for the flat linished sides, I suspect that technique is pretty much the normal way with hand shaped handles of getting that shadow line and flushing the saw screws.

Which brings me to the real question, how have you found the lighter weight of the Gramercy when compared to the Wenzloff?

Regards
Ray

 

[Harbo]

Hi Ray

Will have to report back later about a performance comparison - apart from a few trial cuts with the Gramercy I have not had time to use them in earnest.

I made the handles about 1/8" thicker than shown on the enclosed templates, which after sanding etc. are about 1/16" thicker than the 7/8" suggested. I will have to check, but the supplied set screws do not have much latitude especially with the supplied washer? As I said I intend to play around with that aspect but it is only cosmetic and does not effect the saws function? I am surprised that Gramercy's production ones are that different - I did follow the templates apart from the thickness? (See the recent thread "The Right Tool" which shows some work in progress)
I did think about making some Wenzloff styles handles (which I like) but was not sure if this would effect the balance/performance - maybe something to try in the future? I might even have a go at making some longer set screws myself on my tiny Unimat lathe? Time, time, time where does it go?

Rod

 

[Evergreen]

Harbo

Nice saws!

Do you find the shallower blades of the Gramercy saws to be an advantage over the Wenzloffs? Or do you prefer the deeper blades?

 

[Harbo]

In between a spot of gardening, I had a play with the saws - not that this is a definitive test, just some initial findings!

Cutting wise there was not much between the Gramercy D/T and the Wenzloff even though the Gramercy blade is 0.018" thick whilst the Wenzloff is 0.020". The Wenzloff is much more aggressive but that is probably down to its 15ppi compared to 19ppi. The Gramercy D/T is much lighter and "daintier" with a very narrow cut (just visibly narrower than the Wenz.) so will probably be my saw of choice for the smaller D/T's.

A more noticeable difference was between the two Carcase saws. They are both 14ppi and of similar thickness 0.020", but the Wenzloff had much greater set which showed up in a wider and more ragged cut. I was quite surprised to find the Gramercy cut slightly faster - about 3 strokes quicker on some test pieces (11 compared to 14).

The Wenzloff handles were a much better fit for me than the Gramercys I had made, but I intend to round them off more sometime soon to see if that makes an improvement?

All in all both makes are excellent and there is very little to choose between them. If I was really pushed I would say the Gramercys with Wenzloff handles were the best! But that might change over time and with greater use?

Ray - I like the look of the handle in your thread - reminds me of my old Frederick Willey (Tyzac) which I find very comfortable,

Saw has since been expertly sharpened by Ian.

Rod