Wedged through tenons

[clogs]

roxgwhit...thanks for the photo....
I must be nuts but I quite like that sideboard....not quite sure aboout the top panel....
the wife wouldn't have it in the house tho....

also as for the kerf on split tennons....
I just run a panel saw down a bit, no taper, then slightly taper the hole and wack in the wedge with glue....
seems to last OK....
prob considered rough workmanship on here.....lol....

 

[D_W]

I don't think the hole is intended to prevent splitting. It's there to provided a 'hinge' point so that the tenon spreads uniformly thus creating good contact with the mortice wall.
Brian

not creating arguments with anyone, but I'd be willing to bet in some quartered dry stock, a crack is possible with too much vigor on the tenons.

The way the holes are biased to the outside suggests that flexibility is desirable to create a bend point.

 

[johnnyb]

the main thing with this is to make your saw kerf wide enough so the wedge goes in enough not to snap. this then allows the wedge to go in properly and do its job. no japanese saws here!

 

[Jacob]

....
But through tenons with foxtail wedges hardly a mention and I guess aren't often found in old furniture. Could be wrong! I've never seen them in old joinery
I doubt they'd be structurally stronger, or have any purpose other than decoration.

Correction - they are seen everywhere in axe/hammer handles and rustic furniture such as legs on stick furniture, benches. Usually round legs hence the only place to put them.
PS and just scrolled back and noticed roxgwhit has posted a photo of the very thing!

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Do decorative wedges by all means!

Oh, I will, and do, ha, ha. They're also strong

But through tenons with foxtail wedges hardly a mention and I guess aren't often found in old furniture. Could be wrong! I've never seen them in old joinery
I doubt they'd be structurally stronger, or have any purpose other than decoration.

You'll never come across through tenons with foxtail wedges because there's no such thing. The fox wedged tenon relies on there being a stopped or blind mortice the bottom of which is what drives the wedges into place.

I've seen people put images up on the internet of through M&Ts with wedges that they described as fox wedged M&Ts, but those people were obviously know-nothings when it came to joinery, so any further 'information' they might decide to share with their eager audience about woodworking is well worth ignoring. Slainte.

 

[Jacob]

Oh, I will, and do, ha, ha. They're also strong

You'll never come across through tenons with foxtail wedges because there's no such thing. The fox wedged tenon relies on there being a stopped or blind mortice the bottom of which is what drives the wedges into place.

You can do the same/similar thing by hammering them into kerfs in a through tenon. Give it a different name if you want to. I'll stick to "through tenon foxtail wedged" unless somebody has a better idea!

 

[Sgian Dubh]

You can do the same/similar thing by hammering them into kerfs in a through tenon. Give it a different name if you want to. I'll stick to "through tenon foxtail wedged" unless somebody has a better idea!

Interesting. If I've understood your description I know that as a wedged through tenon, which has the same appearance as the M&T I showed in the picture of the stretcher rail of the table in my earlier post. To me, if the wedges are driven from the outside of the through mortice into saw kerfs cut in the tenon or, alternatively, simply driven alongside the narrow edges of the the tenon they're all just wedged through M&Ts: different approach and finished appearance, but essentially the intention is much the same mechanical locking.

Of course, we could just be dancing on terminology pinheads, if you see what I mean. Slainte.

 

[D_W]

The collins dictionary (surprisingly!!) has an entry for foxtail wedge. However, in Richard's defense, it refers to the use of the term as "American English".

Jacob does love the Americans, though.

I've google image shows, at the same time, the holes that are biased toward the outside of the tenons as "strain relief holes"

as to drilling two holes being a lot of effort in a joint that was predominantly found after power tools were common in shops (including the mortiser that made the whole craze of through tenons possible)....I find that notion a bit strange.

I have my own biases against through tenons - I've made them before, but not wedged them. Since I know little about them, generally trying to hide such things (also in defense of richard's clean work, this is just my personal bias, not one I want to build consensus on), I went and looked up gustav stickley's stuff since it's basically an offshoot of the power mortiser. There may be a wedged through tenon somewhere on the mission style or stickley stuff, but I could only fine through tenons beveled with no wedges in them. Made just to size, it would appear. But hidden secrets would be completely unknown by me.

 

[Jacob]

Interesting. If I've understood your description I know that as a wedged through tenon, which has the same appearance as the M&T I showed in the picture of the stretcher rail of the table in my earlier post. To me, if the wedges are driven into saw kerfs cut in the tenon or, alternatively, simply driven alongside the narrow edges of the the tenon they're all just wedged through M&Ts: different approach and finished appearance, but essentially the intention is much the same mechanical locking.

Of course, we could just be dancing on terminology pinheads, if you see what I mean. Slainte.

"Wedged through tenon" for me just means wedged either side of the tenon in the very common way.

 

[rogxwhit]

If it comes through and it's wedged, it's a wedged through tenon. The term's non-specific apart from that ...

 

[Jacob]

If it comes through and it's wedged, it's a wedged through tenon. The term's non-specific apart from that ...

Right. It could mean wedged through-tenon (normal), or wedged-through tenon (wedged in kerfs)?

 

[rogxwhit]

Right. It could mean wedged through-tenon (normal), or wedged-through tenon (wedged in kerfs)?

Yes, or any other variation. Umbrella term!

 

[Jacob]

Paul calls them "fox tenons" cos they are a bit foxy cunning!

 

[rogxwhit]

A stopped mortice with a blind tenon - not 'through' ...

 

[Jacob]

A stopped mortice with a blind tenon - not 'through' ...

He doesn't call it through tenon.
I'd probably call it a blind mortice with a fox wedged stub tenon.

 

[rogxwhit]

The thread title is 'wedged through tenons' ... fox wedging is a diversion ...

 

[Jacob]

The thread title is 'wedged through tenons' ... fox wedging is a diversion ...

Yebbut he shows a picture of a fox-tail wedged through-tenon

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Wedges can be pretty when in kerfs but for basic joinery they're quicker, easier, safer and probably equally as strong glued on the outside of the tenon. Flare the mortice as for kerfed tenons but taper the tenon slightly the opposite way.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Yebbut he shows a picture of a fox-tail wedged through-tenon

If it's a through tenon it's not "fox" wedged, is it?

 

[Jacob]

If it's a through tenon it's not "fox" wedged, is it?

Well yes and no.