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RGZoro

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2017
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Location
Glasgow
Hello! I've been on these forums for some months now trying to get acquainted with UK brands and build my tools back up.
My wife has agreed for me to have carte blanche on getting my first hand plane. I still want to be responsible with my spending though. This sight seems to have a variety of resorted vintage planes for good prices. Can anyone here vouch for this site? https://www.tooltique.co.uk/antique-too ... er/product
If not can anyone point me in a good direction? I'd really appreciate it. I have looked on here for "first hand plane" recommendations and there seems to be a lot of opinions. Timber is so expensive on this side of the ocean I've monstly been using repurposed materials. If anyone thinks a block plane isn't the best to start with I'd love to hear about it. Thank you for your time and assistance.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
 
I can't speak for that site, but http://www.oldtoolstore.co.uk has a good reputation. A block plane is far from the best plane for a starter - you'd do much better with a 4, 4 1/2, 5, or 5 1/2. I (personally) would say without doubt a 5 1/2 as it is probably the most versatile - there are better ones for just about everything, but to me there's nothing better as your one and only plane. Others will differ, of course. I have a lovely older Stanley block plane - I go sometimes from one end of the year to the next without using it.
 
phil.p":259v7ztw said:
I can't speak for that site, but http://www.oldtoolstore.co.uk has a good reputation. A block plane is far from the best plane for a starter - you'd do much better with a 4, 4 1/2, 5, or 5 1/2. I (personally) would say without doubt a 5 1/2 as it is probably the most versatile - there are better ones for just about everything, but to me there's nothing better as your one and only plane. Others will differ, of course. I have a lovely older Stanley block plane - I go sometimes from one end of the year to the next without using it.

Thank you for the prompt reply Phil. I'll check out that site ASAP. I noticed a few placed recommend block planes since they can, according to what I've read not done, be used for end grain work. I have noticed that a large number of people on here though always refer to either their 5 or 5 1/2 as their go-to plane. Your logic on that being a first plane makes sense and I will try to keep an eye our for those. If you have any other sites you recommend I'd love to hear about them. Thank you for your time you response was appreciated.
 
I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but if you're looking to learn then I'd recommend the path I was encouraged to go down. I picked up an old 4 1/2, stripped and refurbished it (couple of hours if you're a novice) and set it up from scratch. Now I will never claim to be a plane guru, but having done that (now on several planes), I understand the basics and why things work as they do. Just my 2 pence.
 
LancsRick":2gp64d9o said:
I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but if you're looking to learn then I'd recommend the path I was encouraged to go down. I picked up an old 4 1/2, stripped and refurbished it (couple of hours if you're a novice) and set it up from scratch. Now I will never claim to be a plane guru, but having done that (now on several planes), I understand the basics and why things work as they do. Just my 2 pence.

Anyone willing to share their experience with me is at the right tree. I like your logic of getting to know the tool by restoring it. Where would you recommend I look for learning the process of restoring a plane? I've looked on Youtube and there is a daunting amount of videos claiming How-To yet they usually differ a bit. Is there a plane brand you recommend? I usually see Record, QS, and Stanley being the go tos on here. Thank you for your time.
 
I bought a toothing plane and a bowl scraper from Tooltique, both fine and arrived well packaged. I'd definitely buy from them again (if that's the path you choose to go down).
 
Chris152":2nllw87g said:
I bought a toothing plane and a bowl scraper from Tooltique, both fine and arrived well packaged. I'd definitely buy from them again (if that's the path you choose to go down).
Thank you for this Chris. They have so much stock that is good to know. The main, and pretty much only reason, I keep coming back to first getting one refurbished by someone else it because I feel I would be better at doing it myself in the future if I have felt how it is suppose to work. I really do like the idea the other person had mentioned though about getting to know your tools to better work with them. Y'all are making my decision harder with so many good options lol. At least now I can look at the Record planes (no. 5 1/2) and not worry too much about nothing showing up. Thank you for your post.
 
If you don’t have access to someone who knows how to setup a plane, I’ve akways suggested that your first plane should be a new premium plane. Something like a Clifton (support UK manufacturing) Veritas or Lie Nielsen. After you have got the feel of how a plane should behave buying secondhand / doing up a plane is far easier as you know how they should perform / what you are aiming for.
 
RGZoro":14oy72r8 said:
The main, and pretty much only reason, I keep coming back to first getting one refurbished by someone else it because I feel I would be better at doing it myself in the future if I have felt how it is suppose to work.
I went through exactly that about a year ago. I bought a 5 1/2 quangsheng from workshop heaven, used it a bit and then, once I knew what I was aiming for, restored an old 4 (a broken one of my dad's, following great advice I got on the forum and the Paul Sellers video on how to get an old plane working again). That said, if you can do as Phil suggests and get someone to help, or at least have a go and fiddle with someone else's, that'd work just as well and save money?
 
phil.p":midw3zry said:
A block plane is far from the best plane for a starter - you'd do much better with a 4, 4 1/2, 5, or 5 1/2. I (personally) would say without doubt a 5 1/2 as it is probably the most versatile

+1

Unless trimming laminates is all you do then a block plane is a poor choice for your one and only plane. A competent woodworker can do everything, including end grain work, with virtually any bench plane. However, when you're first starting out some bench planes are easier to use than others.

A number four is often recommended for beginners, but an 04 or an 04 1/2 both have the blade set very close to the front. Here's a photo showing an 04 on top of an 05 to illustrate the point,
Planes-4vs5.jpg


Many beginners find it difficult to start the planing cut, and consequently they massacre the first inch of the workpiece. They would do better with a slightly longer plane, one that has more of the sole resting on the workpiece before the cut commences. When traditional woodworking was widely taught in schools, the single bench plane they virtually all used was the 05. That length of bench plane is simply the best all rounder.

An 05 was the preferred choice for 11-16 year olds. But if you're physically stronger then a better choice would be the slightly wider 05 1/2 that Phil recommended. If you don't have the hand and arm strength then stick with an 05. Don't sweat it though, it's not a huge deal either way.

An older Record or Stanley 05 or 05 1/2 would make an excellent choice. However, there's no dodging the fact that some of them may need a bit of work to perform efficiently. If you don't feel equal to that, and if you have deep pockets, then a Lie Nielsen or Veritas would perform superbly straight from the box. Alternatively some far eastern brands offer nearly all the advantages of a Lie Nielsen but at a much keener price, brands like this,
https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/produ ... k-plane-v3

Nothing in woodworking is ever that simple though. Because if you do decide to go for one of these planes, then you have to be aware that Record and Stanley have thinner blades ("irons"), but the others have much thicker blades.

I've used both and they both work well, however a thicker blade is much, much harder to keep sharp. I won't bore you with the geometry of it all, but over time you'll need to remove far more metal with a thicker blade than a thinner Record or Stanley version. So much so that IMO modern thicker blades just aren't practical unless you have some kind of power assisted method for grinding. If you try to do the job purely by hand, even with a coarse diamond stone, then you'll be looking at over a hundred tedious strokes on the stone every time you sharpen. If you have a camber on your blade (as you should) then you have to repeat all those strokes at different points around the blade to maintain the camber's shape. Trust me, that will take the fun out of woodworking in pretty short order!

One final point. When you get your plane invest the time to learn to use it properly. Lots of hobbyist woodworkers think they're competent with a bench plane, but in truth not many of them actually are. A good test of planing skill is if you can bring a rough sawn board to square and true on all six sides, and if you can edge joint two boards for an invisible glue line. It's worth putting in the effort to get to this level, besides being immensely satisfying those two skills will open the door to a vast range of projects.

Good luck!
 

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*prepost edit... It took me so long to write this that Custard turned up and basically wrote my post but better because he's Custard. Sheesh. I might as well post it anyway for the Gollum pic. #-o

Just popped out to shed to take a pic to show different sole sizes which might help.
Top to bottom: block / 4 and a half / 5
(the block plane was a stanley 110 I've messed about with it's upside down so the top doesn't confuse the issue)
The half size refers to the width of the plane.

FmvQZwq.jpg


People sometimes forget just how much can stump you at first. There's a lot to take in and it's easy to get swamped and overloaded.

I was lucky enough to get that 4 1/2 well set up from a good guy on here for £20. I can see your point entirely about getting one from a reputable place. It makes a lot of sense. You're basically upping your chances of getting a good (regular use size) user at for a little more investment. That's just common sense. Deema's option ensures you pretty much certify your chances of quality at a greater financial cost. Depends on what you are willing /able to invest. Those tools don't come cheap. If you do decide to buy new then do have a look at QS (from a good dealer).
If you get yourself a good user for 40 -50 notes it won't be the biggest bargain by a stretch but it will get you working and I can't see that's not investable value for a tool that will see you out.
Luckily for me I'm slope immune nowadays and looked at tooltique offers
https://www.tooltique.co.uk/shop/vintag ... furbished/
and ohhhhthatsniceIlikethatitsveryshinywhydoIlikethoselevercapssomuchitsnotnormalprecious! :shock:
cXpNdIO.jpg

It's ours! We wants it!

I know which one I would buy I say to myself hurriedly closing tooltiques website. :D
I don't think you should buy that one though. I have issues.
 
custard":3th9tc14 said:
phil.p":3th9tc14 said:
A block plane is far from the best plane for a starter - you'd do much better with a 4, 4 1/2, 5, or 5 1/2. I (personally) would say without doubt a 5 1/2 as it is probably the most versatile

+1

Unless trimming laminates is all you do then a block plane is a poor choice for your one and only plane. A competent woodworker can do everything, including end grain work, with virtually any bench plane. However, when you're first starting out some bench planes are easier to use than others.

A number four is often recommended for beginners, but an 04 or an 04 1/2 both have the blade set very close to the front. Here's a photo showing an 04 on top of an 05 to illustrate the point,


Many beginners find it difficult to start the planing cut, and consequently they massacre the first inch of the workpiece. They would do better with a slightly longer plane, one that has more of the sole resting on the workpiece before the cut commences. When traditional woodworking was widely taught in schools, the single bench plane they virtually all used was the 05. That length of bench plane is simply the best all rounder.

An 05 was the preferred choice for 11-16 year olds. But if you're physically stronger then a better choice would be the slightly wider 05 1/2 that Phil recommended. If you don't have the hand and arm strength then stick with an 05. Don't sweat it though, it's not a huge deal either way.

An older Record or Stanley 05 or 05 1/2 would make an excellent choice. However, there's no dodging the fact that some of them may need a bit of work to perform efficiently. If you don't feel equal to that, and if you have deep pockets, then a Lie Nielsen or Veritas would perform superbly straight from the box. Alternatively some far eastern brands offer nearly all the advantages of a Lie Nielsen but at a much keener price, brands like this,
https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/produ ... k-plane-v3

Nothing in woodworking is ever that simple though. Because if you do decide to go for one of these planes, then you have to be aware that Record and Stanley have thinner blades ("irons"), but the others have much thicker blades.

I've used both and they both work well, however a thicker blade is much, much harder to keep sharp. I won't bore you with the geometry of it all, but over time you'll need to remove far more metal with a thicker blade than a thinner Record or Stanley version. So much so that IMO modern thicker blades just aren't practical unless you have some kind of power assisted method for grinding. If you try to do the job purely by hand, even with a coarse diamond stone, then you'll be looking at over a hundred tedious strokes on the stone every time you sharpen. If you have a camber on your blade (as you should) then you have to repeat all those strokes at different points around the blade to maintain the camber's shape. Trust me, that will take the fun out of woodworking in pretty short order!

One final point. When you get your plane invest the time to learn to use it properly. Lots of hobbyist woodworkers think they're competent with a bench plane, but in truth not many of them actually are. A good test of planing skill is if you can bring a rough sawn board to square and true on all six sides, and if you can edge joint two boards for an invisible glue line. It's worth putting in the effort to get to this level, besides being immensely satisfying those two skills will open the door to a vast range of projects.

Good luck!
Always happy to hear from the great Custard himself. I tend to look through these forums when I am curious about something and always find your posts very insightful. You also helped me when I had asked about Timber in Scotland. You help reaffirm what a lot of people here have said but also gave me a lot more information as to the details in differences that I probably would not have learned myself for a long time (difference in blade thickness). Thank you for your insight and time. I like your recommendation of how to practice/test my skills with a hand plane. Would it matter if I am practicing with hardwood or softwood?
 
Bm101":3hrsk2w7 said:
*prepost edit... It took me so long to write this that Custard turned up and basically wrote my post but better because he's Custard. Sheesh. I might as well post it anyway for the Gollum pic. #-o

Just popped out to shed to take a pic to show different sole sizes which might help.
Top to bottom: block / 4 and a half / 5
(the block plane was a stanley 110 I've messed about with it's upside down so the top doesn't confuse the issue)
The half size refers to the width of the plane.

FmvQZwq.jpg


People sometimes forget just how much can stump you at first. There's a lot to take in and it's easy to get swamped and overloaded.

I was lucky enough to get that 4 1/2 well set up from a good guy on here for £20. I can see your point entirely about getting one from a reputable place. It makes a lot of sense. You're basically upping your chances of getting a good (regular use size) user at for a little more investment. That's just common sense. Deema's option ensures you pretty much certify your chances of quality at a greater financial cost. Depends on what you are willing /able to invest. Those tools don't come cheap. If you do decide to buy new then do have a look at QS (from a good dealer).
If you get yourself a good user for 40 -50 notes it won't be the biggest bargain by a stretch but it will get you working and I can't see that's not investable value for a tool that will see you out.
Luckily for me I'm slope immune nowadays and looked at tooltique offers
https://www.tooltique.co.uk/shop/vintag ... furbished/
and ohhhhthatsniceIlikethatitsveryshinywhydoIlikethoselevercapssomuchitsnotnormalprecious! :shock:
cXpNdIO.jpg

It's ours! We wants it!

I know which one I would buy I say to myself hurriedly closing tooltiques website. :D
I don't think you should buy that one though. I have issues.
This is a time when for me more information is better than less so I do appreciate your post. The images also help to add to the one Custard had posted. Unfortunately I tend not to be too blessed by the tool bargain deities but am always happy to hear that others are. That sounds like a great price for a set up plane compared to what I have been looking at.
If I ever get a QS it would be from WorkshopHeaven. I have dealt with them twice now and the customer service was exceptional both times. I am big believer in paying a little more if it means supporting a business that takes pride in its customer service.

Why do you not think I should buy that plane? Because I will be honest with you, After reading all the wonderful information provided here and then seeing that link I ended up getting two planes. I picked up that Stanley 4 1/2 you linked and a Record 5 1/2. The record I had already been leaning towards and I had been planning to spend more than the 45 GBP it cost so I pulled the trigger on the Stanley. It helped that I kept reading about planes that were pre-war were something people especially liked to look for and that Stanley was 1910. Thank you for your time and insight! I really do appreciate it.
 
the most useful plane is defintely the 5 1/2, I personally found a block plane not really that useful, unless of course it's high end like a veritas clifton or lie neilsen, the bronze lie neilsen planes are gorgeous I can't deny it, but get the planes you really need first, which should be a jack, smoother and jointer.
 
RGZoro":2ckyi48x said:
Would it matter if I am practicing with hardwood or softwood?

Best if the wood is knot free, at least to begin with, but apart from that soft and hardwoods are both good.

The thing to explore in planing exercises is the subtleties of a bench plane, how you can achieve flatness by selectively removing high spots, the impact of different cambers, dealing with an edge that slopes in different directions along its length, how to take twist out of a board, how frequently you should re-sharpen, taking stopped shavings followed by through shavings to first flatten, and then minutely hollow, an edge. And while you're doing this you'll likely be fettling the finer details of your plane, and seeing how those improvements translate into actual shavings.

When you first start it's tempting to get one or two decent shavings and immediately conclude it's job done...you've cracked planing. But that's like a learner driver successfully pulling away for the first time without stalling and thinking, all sorted, now I'm a competent motorist!
 
'Why do you not think I should buy that plane? Because I will be honest with you, After reading all the wonderful information provided here and then seeing that link I ended up getting two planes. I picked up that Stanley 4 1/2 you linked and a Record 5 1/2. '
Because I would have just bought the 5 1/2. Two birds , one stone. You haven't lost out financially or made a bad decision. It's a good call overall. You can always resell if needed after all! For smaller stock I'd say you might get more control from a 4 rather than a 4 1/2 but I'm not giving out advice here mate. I'm a two bob beginner! I'm dangerous! 8) My next port of call would be ITS and ultex diamond stones in a sale.
Welcome to the world of sharpening.
https://www.its.co.uk/Misc/Ultex-Diamon ... 2147483647
 
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