Very specific hinge needed....I can't find it

[mrtree]

Hi all,

I need a hinge for a drop leaf table, that's easy enough, except........

The leaf edge has to be hidden entirely under the table top when in the "down" position.

The edge profile is a slight round, convex on the top & the corresponding reverse profile (concave) on the leaf edge.

I have found these from the USA but they don't think they will accommodate my top which is 32mm thick.

Does anyone have any ideas please

 

[doorframe]

Mr Tree, I had exactly the same problem a few months ago. I ended up using a homemade mechanism, as I couldn't find a hinge to do the job on 40mm thick breakfast bar.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/i-need-a-hinge-to-do-this-t76381.html

 

[bugbear]

Hi all,

I need a hinge for a drop leaf table, that's easy enough, except........

The leaf edge has to be hidden entirely under the table top when in the "down" position.

The edge profile is a slight round, convex on the top & the corresponding reverse profile (concave) on the leaf edge.

I have found these from the USA but they don't think they will accommodate my top which is 32mm thick.

Does anyone have any ideas please

Depending on your requirment, level of desperation, and budget, I don't see any design
issue with simply making the hinge you show bigger, to suit your stock.

These people claim to go all the way down to one-offs:

http://www.lasermaster.co.uk/

BugBear

 

[Chrispy]

Have you seen the easy on hinge? I have some here and it will do what you want with 18mm thick top so you would need to recess them in 14mm and then they should work for you.

 

[mrtree]

Thanks, the Laser cutter route was my next port of call so your link is much appreciated.

The sliding mechanism has been considered but probably isn't an option because the 4 legs pivot, each pair supports a leaf & would foul any sliding mechanism before reaching their "fixed" position, thanks anyway.

It's not complicated is it, cut the blank, single press on each component & then rivet.

I've emailed them the pic....lets see what they come up with (£££££££) (hammer)

Chris

 

[mrtree]

Have you seen the easy on hinge? I have some here and it will do what you want with 18mm thick top so you would need to recess them in 14mm and then they should work for you.

Thanks, I didn't think they would work because of the thickness, it wouldn't make any difference when the leaf was up but wouldn't the extra 14mm thickness get in the way when closing?.........I'll have to have a play.

 

[Chrispy]

Have you seen the easy on hinge? I have some here and it will do what you want with 18mm thick top so you would need to recess them in 14mm and then they should work for you.

Thanks, I didn't think they would work because of the thickness, it wouldn't make any difference when the leaf was up but wouldn't the extra 14mm thickness get in the way when closing?.........I'll have to have a play.

](*,) Forget that idea does not work as you say.

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi all,

I need a hinge for a drop leaf table, that's easy enough, except........

The leaf edge has to be hidden entirely under the table top when in the "down" position.

The edge profile is a slight round, convex on the top & the corresponding reverse profile (concave) on the leaf edge.

I have found these from the USA but they don't think they will accommodate my top which is 32mm thick.

Does anyone have any ideas please

I would make a 'rule-joint' and use the proper hinges. That's the best way I know to hinge a drop-leaf, and hide the hinges.
Have a look on this page.

https://uk.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt ... =yfp-t-903


I have seen paired router cutters that will make the joint.
But not for some time..
HTH

 

[mrtree]

I would make a 'rule-joint' and use the proper hinges.

I would if they would work, but they won't, thanks for the suggestion though

 

[bugbear]

I would make a 'rule-joint' and use the proper hinges.

I would if they would work, but they won't

As long the hinges have enough offset, I don't see why a
rule joint couldn't perform its normal function.

Perhaps I'm missing something - could you explain?

BugBear

 

[Benchwayze]

I would make a 'rule-joint' and use the proper hinges.

I would if they would work, but they won't, thanks for the suggestion though

My pleasure. Although I am curious as to why a rule-joint wouldn't work. Is it aesthetics?

Anyway, I hope you find the answer.

 

[mrtree]

OK here we go. (hammer) ....it's doing my head in too :?

 

[Benchwayze]

Those asymmetrical 'drop-leaf' hinges are made to be used with a rule-joint; and (AFAIK) there is only one form that can take. If you made a proper rule-joint, you could still have the edges of your table leaves worked with a half-round moulding.

A couple of things to bear in mind.

You have to ease the underside of the round-over part of the joint, so it doesn't make contact, and stiffen the movement along the joint.

Once you have worked the round-over part of the joint, square a line across the end grain, so it's directly in line with the quirk. Then use the hinge to determine the depth and position of the hinge-recess, along that line.

The pivot point has to be on that line, exactly beneath the quirk of the round over. The depth is down to the thickness of the hinge. It's a case than of care when you work the mortice. Hand-work is best.
Depending on the thickness of you timber the radii of cove and round-over will differ. Generally 5/8" or 1/2" radii are sufficient.

If you have cut the joint with a router, then some plane-work is usually necessary to fit the joint afterwards.

I cut my first one, using a fillister plane and my only wooden mounding plane, for the cove. I practiced in block-board, and made four or five, until I got it right. Even then there was some fiddling to do.
It truly is easier to do, (the fifth time around!) than to explain via a post!

I hope that helps you.

 

[AndyT]

Mrtree,

The great benefit of the trad rule joint is that the weight of the leaf when in the up position is largely supported by the joint, not by the hinges.
If you managed to design a hinge that would work with your preferred profile, I think you would lose that advantage - so increasing the chances of pulling out the screws.

If you don't like the quarter round shape, and want your main table edge to have the symmetrical section in your drawing, I think your best bet is to follow what Doorframe posted, which supports the leaf independently of the edge - his had a plain square edge.

Looking at your preferred section, I do think that the very thin parts on the inner edges of the flap will be too fragile in practice - they come down to nothing, as drawn.

 

[bugbear]

OK here we go. (hammer) ....it's doing my head in too :?

Ah - right.

The rule joint hinge and moulding form an integrated whole. You can't mess it about.

BugBear

 

[Benchwayze]

OK here we go. (hammer) ....it's doing my head in too :?

Ah - right.

The rule joint hinge and moulding form an integrated whole. You can't mess it about.

BugBear

That's what I wanted to say! :mrgreen:

 

[mrtree]

If you made a proper rule-joint, you could still have the edges of your table leaves worked with a half-round moulding.

Thanks but it simply doesn't work with my profile & the resting "down" position of the leaf. (IMHO)

You will note that the one and only hinge I have found that will work has an arm that recesses into the underside of the top by a considerable amount. (picture copied to refresh your memory)
I cannot see how my "dropped leaf" position can possibly be achieved with a rule joint hinge.(IMHO)
Perhaps I'm missing something.

Please could you use the next sketch & add where you would place the hinge, that would help me understand exactly what I'm missing. :?

Enclosed are "stock" pictures of the type of table although the one I might make is round with 2 drop leaves hinged from a central fixed top of about 300mm X 1100mm
The 4 legs will pivot from points underneath to support the leaves. There will only be minimal stress on the hinges.

The rule joint hinge will only work with a rule joint (IMHO) because that's what it was designed for.

My joint isn't a rule joint, similar, there is a drop leaf, but not the same.

The rule joint won't work, it'll never work, I know that

The hinge in my original post WILL work............I'm not sure where all this "rule joint" stuff came from, it was obvious from the outset that it wouldn't work (IMHO)

All I'm trying to do is source a producer of that type of hinge in the UK............not the USA.

The drawing profile is slightly "thin" that's down to my inept drawing skills. I have merely tried to demonstrate a concept, not provide accurate working drawings. In practice this would be beefed up a little and not go down to zero, ignore the fact that the pic is a bit pointy............see photos.....

The slidy out option has already been covered, it won't work because the mechanism will interfere with the pivoting legs.

Thanks for all the input

 

[bugbear]

Enclosed are "stock" pictures of the type of table although the one I might make is round with 2 drop leaves hinged from a central fixed top of about 300mm X 1100mm
The 4 legs will pivot from points underneath to support the leaves. There will only be minimal stress on the hinges.

The rule joint hinge will only work with a rule joint (IMHO) because that's what it was designed for.

Yes, of course.

Where did those pctures come from - is it a table you have access to?

BugBear

 

[mrtree]

Yes, of course.

Where did those pctures come from - is it a table you have access to?

BugBear

Googled I think, not by me. Unfortunately no access to the table & there aren't any pics of the underside that I can find.

 

[AndyT]

The Ikea Ingatorp drop leaf table looks as if it has the edge profile you want but none of the pictures show how it hinges.

I wonder if it uses a kitchen door style hinge onto the legs? There is a big gap between edges when folded down.