Variable speed

[Richard J]

Hi

A while back, I bought a viceroy educator. This was discussed at length with Random orbital Bob. I chose the viceroy over a RECORD CL4 ( actually instead of buying Random orbital Bobs CL4).(sorry again Rob)
I have used the lathe quite a bit, and now understand why various people steered me towards an old heavy weight lathe opposed to a modern lathe.
However
I also now understand why Rob was do insistent about variable speed.
I do not want a new lathe.
But I would like variable speed.
I have had various quotes, ranging from mega stupid expensive, down to next to nothing, which will be a waste of time.
I have read that a few people have used Mitsubishi inverters to create a variable speed, on a single phase lathe.
Is there anyone who could actually help me do this on my viceroy, which is at the moment single phase. I have no three phase here.
To repeat, I don't want a new lathe!! Happy to alter mine.

Cheers
Richard

 

[Woodmonkey]

Have you tried haydock converters?

 

[Richard J]

Hi
Thankyou for your reply.
Haydock are the speed genie people I think. But I will ring them and ask
I was hoping to go down the Mitsubishi route.
Do you not lose a lot of torque going down the speed genie route?

Cheers

Richard

 

[deema]

I would look at changing a 1ph motor to 3ph and get a 1ph to 3phinverter. Overall the cost will be about the same as a 1ph to 1ph inverter and a 3ph motor will have far better torque.
Siemens or Schnider are excellent.
You will need a couple of buttons, and potentiometer (on/off/reverse). These are as cheap to buy off eBay already setup as trying to source your own.

https://inverterdrive.com/group/AC-Inve ... 230Vac+3ph

 

[Woodmonkey]

Hi
Thankyou for your reply.
Haydock are the speed genie people I think. But I will ring them and ask
I was hoping to go down the Mitsubishi route.
Do you not lose a lot of torque going down the speed genie route?

Cheers

Richard

I'm no expert but i don't think you lose torque, they will supply an inverter and a suitable 3ph motor to go with it

 

[Richard J]

Thankyou both for your replies.
I have a friend with a metal lathe who has a Siemens inverter,he swears by it.
I will speak to haydock on Monday as well. Maybe the biggest job will be wiring it up!
Say £110 for the inverter, allow £150 for a good quality motor, and £50 for switching plate and mounting box.
Plus electricians fees!! I can get the vat back.
Still no where near the price of a quality new lathe!!
Thankyou again
Richard

 

[selectortone]

I fitted a variable speed kit from Haydock Converters to my CL1 and it transformed it - more power, more torque. Very quiet too, it runs like a sewing machine now. I use the VS ALL the time. Very helpful people at Haydock too.

I have turned 14" out of balance blanks on it which wasn't possible before at the slowest fixed speed of 500rpm.

 

[Stiggy]

I can't help you on this subject, but I ended up buying Robs' CL4 - I can confirm that I couldn't do without variable speed and whatever device/unit you decide to buy - it will be one of the best things you ever upgrade your lathe with.

 

[Richard J]

many thanks for everyone who has commented and advised.
I have been I contact with Haydock this morning. £550 inc Vat for the full package including the remote switch control box. Which after reading various comments from Chas, and the logical reasoning, I feel the remote control box is a must.
I was a bit shocked at the cost, but I suppose an equivalent modern lathe to my viceroy would be mega bucks( what would an equivalent lathe to an viceroy educator be?). Besides that, all my adaptors, face plates etc are in great condition and I really do like the fact it weighs over 250kg and is as solid as a rock.
Doing the variable speed thing cheap, will only lead to problems later. Cheap doesn't pay

 

[graduate_owner]

Hi Richard,
Congrats on getting a Viceroy. I bought one about a year ago and I think it is a superb machine, rock solid. It was 3 phase already, but the motor was not dual voltage so I had to replace it. It was quite a job but possible. Basically I raised the headstock end using a block and tackle, unscrewed the motor mounting plate (4 bolts) and dropped the motor and mounting plate to the floor ( heavy - very heavy, so I used a trolley jack to manage the weight). Then I swapped the motors over and reversed the procedure. So now I have a variable speed Viceroy, using an inverter. I already had bought the inverter from willpowerelectricalltd on ebay, it's an Invertek and is British made. I definitely avoided far East imports. Mine can handle 3HP and cost £178 inc postage, but I think they have gone up a bit. I had to ask the vendor some questions and I had immediate and knowledgable replies, so they are not just box shifters.

A few points -
1. the model I have is not contained in a IP66 enclosure ( they are more expensive) so it has to be put in a damp proof and dust proof enclosure, which I made up. I included a temperature cut out in case the unit overheated, but it hasn't done so yet, although since it is a 3hp unit and the motor is 1 hp I think it should be fine anyway. Worth considering though.
2. If you turn the speed down then the motor fan slows too, which means the cooling fan slows too, and so the motor could overheat. I was thinking to fit a separate fan / motor combination running at full speed, but there's not much room.
3. As mentioned above, you need a dual speed motor wired in delta mode, as opposed to star mode. Then it will run on a basic inverter. Otherwise you need a more expensive inverter.
4. Finally, you can get higher priced inverters which maintain low speed torque, although ordinary inverters may have parameters which can be set to improve low speed torque. You can set other parameters such as ramp up and down, basically meaning the motor increases to full speed gradually so is gentler on pulleys etc., and slows down more slowly ( but I don't know of any benefits that would bring about). There are dozens of other parameters which I don't even pretend to understand, but you can get by with basic default settings so don't feel intimidated.

I also have a graduate bowl lathe, which I particularly like because it has the same inboard and outboard threads ( except right and left hand threads) and I bought an Axminster chuck with L / R thread so fits both sides. The Viceroy has different threads so not as convenient, and the outboard is a wierd 1 1/4 x 9 ( and I don't have a faceplate for that side) but apart from that I think they are about equal quality. I don't understand why graduates are always so desirable whereas viceroys seem to be ignored.

Let me know if I can offer any other information.

Edit - £500+ seems pricey. A 1hp inverter would be cheaper than my 3hp one, obviously, even if in an ip enclosure. The switch and variable resistor would add a few pounds only, and is very easy to connect in. So it's just the cost of the motor, and possibly a new pulley - stay with 4 step and yoj will have all the speed range you need. My motor was second hand and very cheap, but I'm sure a new one would not push up the overall cost to anywhere near £500.

K

 

[Richard J]

Hi 'K'

Thankyou for your reply
I don't mind paying for something if it's properly built and quality.
Haydock broke it down for me when I haggled
his kit includes
WEG inverter in an IP66 sealed metal box, (no heat issues!?!?)
Rewound recon 3 ph motor ( not Far East motor)
Remote switching in an IP 66 box with magnetic back plate.
All wiring, from the mains supply through.
Inc vat and delivery.

I priced
Good motor eBay 100
Good Inverter 300
Remote plate with speed control 30
Boxes ?????
Wiring????
Where to put the wires PRICELESS!!

Yes it's pricey, but how much is knowing it's wired correctly and is guaranteed worth?

 

[Honest John]

I have gone over this journey with my Nova 1624. In the end I used Haydock for a similar price to what you have stated. The service was outstanding and the results even more so. My nova lathe is not the heavy weight jobbie you are talking about, but was completely transformed by this conversion. The lathe is now much quieter and smoother than with the original motor, and you could stand a coin on edge on the headstock now. I didn't think the original was noisy or vibey until i experienced the upgraded machine, and cheaper than replacing the lathe. My control box provides a 5 or 15 second choosable spin up/down soft start which is useful when starting heavy out of ballance pieces. I have found this comforting, but I suppose you could always turn the speed down very low before starting, if you could remember. The cost of this upgrade has long been forgotten, but the machine is a delight whenever I switch it on. I have no experience of any other converter systems but the Haydock speed gienie is a complete turn key system, and I can't speak highly enough of them.