Traditional crafts of the future, what might they be, and how will they be made?

[Spectric]

Crikey Spectric, I think you underestimate the ability of humans to get themselves out of trouble.
We will be colonising the moon and Mars within 15 years. Sounds ridiculous but I firmly believe it.

and here is the biggest problem, we think that we are so clever we can always get out of trouble but you overlook one of the biggest driving forces there is, greed and the economy. There are too many people that live for wealth and lifestyle with an attitude of "it won't happen in my lifetime" so do I care. The only solution to solving the issues must be a global one where everyone participates and takes action, not just promises and signing up to some agreement that sets some deadline for doing very little before some point in the future.

I think our Covid epidemic can be traced back to the government hedging its bets, do we just slam the doors closed and prevent virus getting in but our economy will be decimated or hang on and hope its all just a bit of nothing and have no impact to the economy. Oh dear to late it is real, it is now spreading across the country and our economy is decimated anyway. Had they put people first then the doors would have closed, no hessitation.

What is the point of living on the moon or mars? On Earth we live in a breathable atmosphere and we have some green and pleasant lands so what has the moon got to offer, it is a cold barren lump of rock and if people did colonise it then what will they be saying in years to come, one day we will go and colonise that bigger planet over there called Earth.

 

[space.dandy]

Very perceptive. I had not considered creating by addition rather than subtraction as the dominant technique, quite normal in Art both, but I had woodworking blinkers on, and I should also be thinking of all crafts.

Consider also that the various art and craft disciplines are not orthogonal, but in many cases complementary. 3D printing, for example, is an excellent way to make precise and accurate jigs and templates.

 

[Awac]

Consider also that the various art and craft disciplines are not orthogonal, but in many cases complementary. 3D printing, for example, is an excellent way to make precise and accurate jigs and templates.

Space Dandy. For a small sentence it brings up some big questions!

• So using this example, a PC and a 3D printer make a tool to guide a human to make...is this any different from a casting of a guide in a steel factory in Sheffield 100 years ago?
• Does it matter if a robot makes the master mould or a human hand?
• Is the most important part the intellect of the original creation?
• Would it matter in the future if an AI program (identified a need for a part that humans ,in its view being limited) created for humans?
• Do you consider craft/art essential for human health? If so, let us imagine a future scenario where no human was involved in any part of a craft/art process, would it still have the emotional effect it has now on humans if they knew this?
• If an AI program becomes established, would it become as respected as a human artist/craftsman?

Is AI bad or good, I don't know. I am interested in how craft and skills will be in the future. I realise I am trying to define guidelines for its survival in the image I recognise, is that right or should what I know evolve?

 

[city17]

Idea: "Additive Manufacturing" (that's 3D printing, laser sintering of powders and all the other technology that builds things up instead of cutting them out) could eventually become the norm.
At that point, making anything by cutting it out of a block of wood, metal, plastic or stone whether by hand or with machine tools might be regarded as hopelessly wasteful / inefficient / archaic.

Excellent point, but just funny that there are currently some developments in the 3D printing space where subtractive technology is actually being added. In the form of a tool changer that will switch to a CNC cutter after having 3D printed some parts, to cut it to its final form. Simply because there are certain things which the additive technology cannot build, but which you can make with a CNC router.

 

[Jacob]

Sentient AI would be a phenomenal achievement to say the least. Fraught with danger though in all honesty.

As for the future of tools - well surely people will still have hobbies? People will need something to do with their time once robots do all the jobs.

Sentient AI has been with us for a very long time. Just think of a thermostat for one.
Must be 1000s of other examples before you even get to computer controlled processes e.g. modern cars are jammed with sensors and reactive systems, doing their little tests, choosing how to react, sending out little messages. They even know where you are and can tell you how to get home!
Spare time not a problem for most people or they wouldn't be bothered about shorter hours, longer holidays, earlier retirement etc etc

 

[billw]

@Jacob I've always taken sentient to mean the ability to feel sensation, emotion, and take a subjective point of view. The things you mention all respond objectively.

 

[Jacob]

@Jacob I've always taken sentient to mean the ability to feel sensation, emotion, and take a subjective point of view. The things you mention all respond objectively.

Is there a categorical difference, other than degrees of complexity and details of the mechanisms?

 

[Awac]

Is there a categorical difference, other than degrees of complexity and details of the mechanisms?

Self Awareness?

(I think the first example was of VCR recorders, they never recorded on timer properly out of sheer spite...and they laughed, I swear it)

 

[Awac]

I told you Boss PC is after me, see what browser suggestion I had..from Scientific American

Lack of Sleep Could Be a Problem for AIs, some types of artificial intelligence could start to hallucinate if they don’t get enough rest, just as humans do.

One of the distinguishing features of machines is that they don’t need to sleep, unlike humans and any other creature with a central nervous system. Someday though, your toaster might need a nap from time to time, as may your car, fridge and anything else that is revolutionized with the advent of practical artificial intelligence technologies.
The change will come when (and if) AI systems that mimic living brains are incorporated into the wide range of devices that currently rely on conventional computers and microprocessors to help us through the day. At least that’s the implication of new research that we are conducting in Los Alamos National Laboratory to understand systems that operate much like the neurons inside living brains.

So in the future I go to use my tools and they say, sorry, time for my nap..or a cranky table saw, now that sounds fun.

Do you have any tools/items which already exhibit this behaviour? Perhaps Fiat are at the advance of AI?

 

[Jacob]

Self Awareness?

(I think the first example was of VCR recorders, they never recorded on timer properly out of sheer spite...and they laughed, I swear it)

The commonest and most self aware gadget nowaday must be a modern car. It knows lots of things about itself, about you - even whether or not you are wearing a seat belt, where it is and how to get home with interesting short cuts!

 

[J-G]

It knows lots of things about itself, about you - even whether or not you are wearing a seat belt, where it is and how to get home with interesting short cuts!

... but only after being provided with a great deal of information by a human. A modern car is like any other computer, when switched off it has no knowledge at all, at switch on it is able to access information at a phenomenal rate.

 

[Jacob]

... but only after being provided with a great deal of information by a human. A modern car is like any other computer, when switched off it has no knowledge at all, at switch on it is able to access information at a phenomenal rate.

Ditto a human being, just like a very sophisticated computer.
Starts life with nothing, learns/taught stuff, switches off with nothing. Different from computers in that we can't be switched on again - obviously a design defect.
Both fail if deprived of energy (porkpies/electricity) or dropped from a height, hit with a stick, etc. etc......both deteriorate and fail with age.......etc

 

[J-G]

Ditto a human being, just like a very sophisticated computer.

That is a fallacy, the human - or any other sentient being's brain - has very little in common with even a modern computer.

 

[Jacob]

That is a fallacy, the human - or any other sentient being's brain - has very little in common with even a modern computer.

I just did a list of things in common!
Yes very different machines, but some very similar outcomes.

 

[Droogs]

Of course an AI entity will never truly be intelligent unless it can be given insufficient information about a problem and then surmise the unknown to then invent the non existing to create a device to solve the problem. Until then there is no such thing as an AI, just very quick noddy guide following machines.

 

[Spectric]

That is a fallacy, the human - or any other sentient being's brain - has very little in common with even a modern computer.

That is both a blessing and a curse for AI. The big difference at present is that we have an analogue brain that is not that logical, powers us with emotions and the ability to make illogical decisions. A computer is just logical, working only in the digital world and without inteligence but at incredable proccessing speeds. It is currently a servant to man, but once we start giving them the ability to learn and evolve without the human traits then being digital everything becomes black and white without hessitation and everything forms part of some equation where we are given algebraic notation. Think of this, you go to the doctor who is computerised, you are analyised and your part in life is evaluated so now the outcome is just a logical one based on a set of values. If you score sufficient points you will be treated, if very low then you are just cremated otherwise the system will try and recover any usable parts from you.

 

[Awac]

Think of this, you go to the doctor who is computerised, you are analysed and your part in life is evaluated so now the outcome is just a logical one based on a set of values. If you score sufficient points you will be treated, if very low then you are just cremated otherwise the system will try and recover any usable parts from you.

We already have this in human society, i.e. public v private medicine!

 

[Awac]

In order for "Traditional" and "craft" to continue, do you agree or disagree with the following statements (and can you add):

1. Intellectually-It must be created by direct human thought.
2. Physically-It must be guided by human hand and/or eye.
3. If AI is involved human craft is threatened, craft needs to be preserved, as we know it.
4. If AI is realised it will help humans to evolve, craft has always changed.
5. Power tools and PC design software(non AI, Human input) fall into a traditional definition.
6. Assign a formal name(s) for hand and powered tool working defining pre AI.
7. Giving a formal pre AI name will separate human involvement from potential future involvement with AI.
8. Don't give it any thought, "Que sera, what will be, will be".
9. Yes, I feel like the film "terminator" was bang on the money.
10. I back all environmental fights, no trees means no wood.
11. Environmental issues are hyped up, the world is infinite, plenty of trees.
12. Woodworkers should form political pressure groups.
13. Woodworkers should never mix pleasure with politics.
14. Governments should encourage a "Sloyd" type program to encourage personal development through crafts.
15. Art & Crafts should be assigned (more) public funds for nations health.

 

[Spectric]

If AI takes over then many crafts will just cease on the basis they are undertaken for the fun/love of it and often serve no functional purpose. Once humans have been replaced due to inferiority and being pointless then AI will probably go the same way because they will deduce that they now have no purpose having cleansed the planet of humans. So whilst we can lets just enjoy our woodworking.

 

[Awac]

If AI takes over then many crafts will just cease on the basis they are undertaken for the fun/love of it and often serve no functional purpose. Once humans have been replaced due to inferiority and being pointless then AI will probably go the same way because they will deduce that they now have no purpose having cleansed the planet of humans. So whilst we can lets just enjoy our woodworking.

LOL. Make a fiddle while Rome burns...