Tools for Dovetails

[xraymtb]

Just days away from pulling the trigger on an Incra fence or Leigh jig, I went and borrowed a Rob Cosman DVD...:shock:

I think my woodworking education at the hands of Norm has blinded me but I've just been converted!!! :lol:

So now I'm considering spending the cash on some hand tools. I did have £400 to spend on a jig or fence but really would balk at spending that on hand tools so am really looking to buy everything I need for hand cutting dovetails for about £200 at most.

I really havent got a good saw for doing these, havent got a dovetail marker (but wondered if a square and sliding bevel could do it) and my chisels are all a bit large and 'chunky' for such fine work.

So who wants to help me spend my cash?!?!?

 

[wizer]

Right, Jigsaw, Chippies pencil, Hammer, Chisel, Hardpoint saw. Go



:lol:

I watched that DVD today as it happens,. The way he does it, makes sense.

 

[woodguy7]

classic answer Wizer, i like it :lol:

 

[Chems]

Dovetail Marker (DIY one), Dividers, decent plane for tidying up, Vertias Dovetail saw is meant to be the best for the money, set of chisels, ashley isles are rated, something to sharpen them with, a jewellers saw, decent adjustable square or one of the nice mark gauges and a marking knife.

Personally I'd get the leigh jig and knock the dovetails out quickly and come back to learning it by hand later. I have a leigh and highly recommend it.

 

[Paul Chapman]

havent got a dovetail marker

Very easy to make using perspex and a piece of hardwood

The cut-outs are done with the router.

If you want a good dovetail saw at a reasonable price, the Veritas one is excellent.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[LarryS.]

just looked in ebay for rob cosman dvd - £27 :shock: add to that costs of saws, markers etc then it has to be cheaper to buy a leigh jig

yes i am trying to convince myself

 

[mr grimsdale]

DT saw or gents or fine tooth backsaw (15 to 20 tpi). Look for Footprint (still around) or Crown.
Needle file and saw set (you may have to adapt an Eclipse 77).
Bevel edged chisel or two, 1/4" or smaller if you are doing smaller pin holes.
Coping saw. Small mallet.
Marking knife of some sort - my new favourite for DTs is a chisel end x-acto craft knife filed with one bevel - you put it in position and tap the end.
Marking gauge or two.
Sliding bevel if you need it but it can be done easily without. (Nobody needs a DT gauge).
That's about it. £60 should cover it.
Spend the rest on wood.

 

[xraymtb]

Dovetail Marker (DIY one), Dividers, decent plane for tidying up, Vertias Dovetail saw is meant to be the best for the money, set of chisels, ashley isles are rated, something to sharpen them with, a jewellers saw, decent adjustable square or one of the nice mark gauges and a marking knife.

Personally I'd get the leigh jig and knock the dovetails out quickly and come back to learning it by hand later. I have a leigh and highly recommend it.

I borrowed a Leigh Super 18 for some dovetails a couple of weeks ago - that was what sold me on spending the cash in the first place but then I looked at the Incra and need a new router fence so was leaning that way.

But now, I cant help but think I do this for fun and to get away from the pressure of the office - unfortunately it pays too well to consider giving it up and doing something I enjoy for money!!. I dont see many large sets of drawers in my near future so being able to quickly batch dovetails isnt a high priority.

With the Ashley Iles chisels (I always wanted some anyway) - would you recommend the normal bevel-edged or the special dovetail chisels?

And sorry for being daft but...what the heck is a jewellers saw? :?

just looked in ebay for rob cosman dvd - £27 Shocked add to that costs of saws, markers etc then it has to be cheaper to buy a leigh jig Very Happy

The DVD is good but I'm glad I didnt have to buy it - I think I'll watch it a few times then move on. I might however buy his more advanced DVDs.

 

[Chems]

I know what your saying. I've got a Vertias Saw on my shopping list plus some bits to make my own DT marker and I guess I need to invest in some decent chisels overtime.

If you haven't got a batch of drawers to make then don't get a leigh, do it the fun less dust way!

Oh and a jewellers saw is just a really fine kerf coping saw, to cut the bottom of the dovetail out prior to chiseling.

 

[wizer]

I used to have the Super 18 and I loved it. Brilliant bit of kit, easy to use, etc. I made my daughter's walker trolley out of it and I'm so proud when I see the dovetailed corners. I couldn't care one bit that they were machine made. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. However, I sold it because it takes so long to set up, that for the small jobs I do it's just not worth having. Plus I can't see me wanting to do dovetails on very many of my own furniture pieces anyway. It was an impulse birthday money buy that I should have put towards a domino.

One day I'll get around to practising doing them by hand.

 

[Saint Simon]

Marking out is so easy with dividers and an LN style dovetail marker as demonstrated by RC. It was a revelation and now I wouldn't do it any other way. The kids at school picked it up very quickly as well.

Then its just sawing and chisels!
Simon

 

[Modernist]

I think its's been said - with bells on.

All you actually need for dovetails is

A decent small square (an old Moore and wright engineers square)(ebay)
A home made 1:8 marking template (piece of bent metal)
A marking or cutting guage
A dovetail saw
A coping saw
A couple of chisels say 3mm and 18mm
A thin marking knife (piece of ground hacksaw blade)
A sharp pencil and 150mm rule

total £60-70

 

[wizer]

I think its's been said - with bells on.

All you actually need for dovetails is

A decent small square (an old Moore and wright engineers square)(ebay)
A home made 1:8 marking template (piece of bent metal)
A marking or cutting guage
A dovetail saw
A coping saw
A couple of chisels say 3mm and 18mm
A thin marking knife (piece of ground hacksaw blade)
A sharp pencil and 150mm rule

total £60-70

I agree, except there's nothing wrong in treating yourself to the Veritas saw. Which is cheap and by all accounts, brilliant. Chisels are a personal choice. The £4.99 set from lidls would probably do it (and I'm serious), but there's also nothing wrong with getting a set of nice chisels from a highly regarded British producer.

Classic Hand Tools sell the type of fret saw that RC uses. However, this style of saw can be bought elsewhere for less if you shop around. I think I saw them on shesto recently.

 

[mr grimsdale]

... there's nothing wrong in treating yourself to the Veritas saw. Which is cheap and by all accounts, brilliant.

but a bit coarse (14tpi) horribly over sold and no better than any old DT saw which is reasonably straight and sharp. Within reason - the Draper offering at about £4 is rubbish, unless they have managed to sort out the sharpening, in which case it would be a much better deal than the Veritas if hardpoint is your thing.

.......there's also nothing wrong with getting a set of nice chisels from a highly regarded British producer....

Except they cost a bomb and aren't particularly necessary.
This question, like so many others on this forum, can be seen in at least two ways; is it about how to make DTs, or is it about looking for reasons to expand a tool collection?

 

[Modernist]

I suppose the difference is that all the tools I listed are essential basic workshop tools with multiple uses and unless you are really starting from scratch you will already have some of them.

The dedicated jigs OTOH are useful only for making dovetails and will spend most of their life under the bench.

Nothing wrong with gaining satisfaction by having an interesting range of tools to choose from but I have yet to stumble accross an avid dovetail jig collector :lol: :lol:

 

[woodbloke]

Loads of excellent suggestions here...my two euros

Couple of decent gauges (make your own)
Marking knife (make your own)
Dovetail guage (make your own) ...PaulC has shown an excellent one
Saws...go for one of the Zona range
Chisels...a few of the AI d/t ones would suit
Piercing saw, Axminster do a decent cheapy (Groz)

That about covers it, but you could add different items depending on how far down you wish to venture on the 'Slope' and whether you've got the means to stop once you're on it 8-[ - Rob

 

[lurker]

Grim keeps making the same point & I agree with him.

Sometimes we forget where needed tools ends & collecting begins.

I think many of us, hand on heart, have to admit we do both.

My concern is we frighten off people just starting out by suggesting all this expensive & elaborate stuff is needed when in actual fact whats needed is to upgrade your skills.

I imagine an old fashioned apprentice spent his first few years learning sharpening & setting of various tools. Certainly this is what has raised my standards from the wood mangler I used to be before I started hanging out with you lot.

 

[woodbloke]

Jim, I agree, but if you look at the list I mentioned, provided you made a lot of the stuff yourself, that little lot (assuming just couple of the AI chisels) would come to about £30ish (without doing the sums) Bear in mind also that the OP had a budget of £300 (or possibly higher) - Rob

 

[newt]

Whats wrong with collecting tools at the same time as working some wood. Perhaps when asked this question there should be two lists, one for beginners and the second for collectors. Spending money on tools (as long as the family don't starve) is better than what many spend there money on :x .

 

[mr grimsdale]

Whats wrong with collecting tools at the same time as working some wood.

Nothing, except anybody just wanting to know how to do things could easily make the mistake of thinking that every problem is solved by buying another bit of kit

Perhaps when asked this question there should be two lists, one for beginners and the second for collectors. Spending money on tools (as long as the family don't starve) is better than what many spend there money on

Might be better to spend it on wood!