Timing Belt Gone

[Halo Jones]

So driving along dual carriageway yesterday and I hear a bang and feel some rumblings. Assuming I have hit something and have a puncture I pull into the side but quickly realise the engine has cut out and when stopped notice a little puff of something come from the bonnet.

I immediately suspect the timing belt has blown and my suspicions backed up by the recovery guy. That is bad luck but the problem is I had the timing belt, water pump etc replaced in June, as well as a full service, plus I was on holiday for a month over the summer so the car hasn't done many miles since. The work was done by a small independent garage that I have used for years. I haven't spoken to them yet and not sure how to approach this with them as my sneaking suspicion is that they have fitted a dodgy belt or done something wrong when fitting. Should the garage have insurance to cover this or is the manufacturer of the timing belt liable? I really don't relish spending out thousands on an engine rebuild/replacement.

It is a 2009 vw passat diesel btw - will vw do their trade in on a dead car?!

 

[marcros]

It makes it much easier if the garage supplied the parts as well as the labour. In this case, your contract is with the garage. You dont need to deal with the manufacturer at all, and dont be fobbed off by the suggestion that you do. (The garage may make a claim from the manufacturer, but this is not your issue)

Is it your own personal car, or is it a business asset? If it's your own, as a consumer, you have a greater level of consumer protection- consumer rights act, consumer protection act and probably others. There is no need to prove any kind of negligence (i.e. careessness). If it is a business asset it should be covered by simple contract law, probably including implied terms from the sale of goods act etc. You would need to check the contract.

In the first instance, I would speak to your garage. They are going to need to investigate the damage to assess the cost of repairs.

 

[morturn]

Just contact the garage who did the work and tell them really nicely what’s happened. It’s always a good idea to give them the opportunity to sort the problem out and in my experience, most places will do just that.

If they have given you good serve in the past, then that’s a good start.

Try not to get into a technical conversation about faulty goods etc, if you’re not in a position to prove or validate it. Let them give their opinions.

If they say no, then that’s another story and you will have to deal with that differently.

 

[tomatwark]

Did the garage replace the belt tensioners as well.

The happened to someone I know on VW engine new timing belt but then the tensioner failed soon afterwards, VW would have replaced them as a matter of course.

A small back street garage may not have know this.

 

[Halo Jones]

I promise i will be nice with them! Just wondered where I stood.

We had an awful experience about 12/13 years ago with a proper Mercedes dealership. They serviced our A-class but forgot to put oil back in.......... Drove the thing about 20 miles before the engine management system kicked in but it was too late to save the engine. They never admitted blame and it took us over a month to get some kind of resolution which meant putting a new engine in. We paid 1K, the garage paid 1K and mercedes paid 1K (as a gesture of good will!). The only good thing to come out of it was that I got to drive around in their top of the range c-class for a month as that was the only courtesy car they had available when our car was first picked up (they normally gave us a smart car!). It was a bit strange to move back to the a-class after that!

That was a good but unlucky car. It ended its days being crushed by a mini-digger that fell of the back of a trailer!

 

[Halo Jones]

Did the garage replace the belt tensioners as well.

That I do not know. There were definitely several parts replaced including the belt, the water pump and at least one other part. I will ask.

 

[sunnybob]

Are you sure they actually changed the belt?
Did they leave the old belt in the car as proof?

About 12 years ago I nearly died as a result of a vauxhall dealership not replacing the cam belt on my astravan.

5000 miles after a main dealer 100,000 mile service the belt gave way and trashed the engine, just as I was turning right in front of an artic lorry. Everything seized solid, couldnt even move it on the starter. The atic managed to see my frantic hand signals through the windscreen and slalom round me.
The dealers service book said they had inspected and passed the belt. The garage the van was recovered to kept it for 2 months while the arguing went on. Eventually the main dealer had to pay for a replacement engine.
I had to pay for my own dry cleaning.
Its the dealers responsibilty to prove the work was carried out.

 

[Halo Jones]

Eek!

I was lucky, the road was clear and just manage to slip onto the end of an entry slip onto the dual carriageway

All the removed parts were given back to me, and all were original vw parts. I only got round to taking them to the tip last week too #-o Ironically the garage told me that was probably still plenty of life left in the belt!

 

[porker]

I've also had a cambelt go on a VW diesel but luckily I had taken a warranty out and it was covered - new engine as it smashed all the valve gear etc. I'd agree with all the above, the garage should stand by this, it is their responsibility with such a short space of time from them doing the work to it failing. They should have replaced everything as stated, water pump, tensioner, belt etc. Not unheard of to have a faulty new part but I had a Toyota once with a full dealer history. Belt snapped on that too and my brother who was a mechanic help me replace engine. Told me there was no way the belt had been changed less than 10k before as stated in service book. Broken belt was less than a 1/3 of the width of the new one!

I agree - go the reasonable route first, often people are reasonable.

 

[MikeK]

Depending on your engine, the rumblings you heard might have been the pistons slamming into the open valves. Some engines have zero clearance between the piston top dead center and the maximum travel of an open valve, which is called an interference engine.

When a timing belt or chain in these engines fail, the valves stop moving but the pistons continue since they are connected to the drive train through the clutch and crankshaft. The result is usually destroyed valves and pistons, cracked heads, and sometimes a cracked crankcase. My brother in law neglected to have the timing belt in his Audi A4 changed at the recommended service interval. When if failed on the highway, his 30-valve 2.8L engine almost self destructed and was a total loss.

 

[marcros]

A few other things:

do keep a note of all communication with the garage and any other relevant info. If things do need to be made more formal, it will help you to write letters enormously if you can refer to a timeline of events from your notes.
"on 18th august, belt snapped, recovered by AA from Fife"
"19th Aug spoke to garage about inspecting the car"
"20th aug garage confirmed xyz"
etc.

keep a record of any expenditure (invoices/receipts)- if for instance you have to pay to have it inspected to establish the damage, or you need a hire car. You are under an obligation to mitigate any losses of the other party, so don't go and hire a Range Rover whilst it is being fixed and try to reclaim the cost of that. You are entitled to your reasonable costs whilst it is repaired, whether this is a hire car, a taxi, etc.

If you do need legal advice, household insurance often includes legal cover. Car insurance does too, but I am not sure if that is just to cover you being sued in the case of an accident. Certainly worth checking both before you pay. Again, keep any receipts.

 

[sunnybob]

I've had two cam belts let go on me in my million mile driving career. the second one was the time I mentioned above. Engine on the 2004 1.7 deisel vauxhall totally seized and destroyed and the only reasons I didnt die was because a) I was only travelling at 5 or 6 mph while turning across a road, and b) there was enough room for the lorry to swerve around me.
The first time (about 10 years earlier) was on a 1985 ford sierra 1.8 estate with a 120,000 miles on the clock. I was 1 mile from home, the engine just died and i coasted to a stop with no nasty noises or dangerous moments at all. I called the AA breakdown service. He arrived, diagnosed the problem extremely quickly and said "I have 1 on the van". He changed it at the roadside in about a half hour, and charged me a tenner for it.

Engine design progress? nah.