Tiling Question

[Mark A]

Hi chaps,

I'm after advice re tiling patterns.

I was planning to start tiling today, but figuring out the orientation of the tiles is proving to be more complicated than I first thought. I started to measure out for a 1/3 brick bond, but the walls are in such a bad shape I'm concerned the pattern will accentuate the dips and bumps. Why don't I just level the walls? Because it was boarded out a few months ago by "professional plasterers" and the ******* pineapples have done a truly appalling job. The walls have been dot and dabbed with barely enough adhesive to hold the boards up (never mind supporting the weight of the limestone tiles which we had hoped to use), they are far from square in the corners and the surface undulates... I was away at the time, otherwise I would have battened the walls properly myself. I've done all I can bar pulling it down and replacing, which is not an option. Okay, that's enough moaning...

I'm now considering setting the tiles vertically; however I don't know how that will look around the bath as there's 580mm from the edge of the bath to the window above and the tiles are 600. I could add a border on top to finish it off, though I think a single tile will look naff.

I'll see if I can draw something to explain my dilemma.

Cheers,
Mark

 

[Mark A]

Not entirely to scale, but should help.

 

[Lons]

Just one immediate observation Mark.
I always would start at a centre line plummed vertically and work from there to each side so the cut tiles are equal widths. That of course depends on the sizes left as too small can look naff and you should take account of the edges of the bath and windows for the same reason and adjust the starting line accordingly.

Sounds complicated but isn't and easy to mark out on the wall with a pencil, remember the grout spaces.

Bob

ps, same applies for the floor so start less than one tile up from the lowest point of the floor, which is never level. Screw a thin batten to the wall and tile on top of that then when set take off the battens and fix the cuts.

 

[Mark A]

Hi Bob,

Centering the tiles on the window was my original plan when laying out for a horizontal brick bond pattern as it's the first thing seen when opening the door directly opposite, but with this vertical arrangement the offset would be glaringly obvious now you mention it.

In my situation you would centre the tiles on the wall regardless of the position of the window above, providing there would be no small slithers of tile on either side?

Cheers
Mark

P.S. You may not believe this, but I can guarantee the floor is flat and level in all directions





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[sunnybob]

is it too late to offer an alternative?
I have used thermoplastic T&G planks on two bathrooms. They look stunning. you can get them in many patterns including veined marble. Super lightweight to put up, When fitted properly they are seamless. They have very good insulating factors. Most important is they are not cold to the touch in mid winter. I would never use tiles in a bathroom ever again.

 

[Mark A]

Hi Bob,

The tiles and adhesive have already been bought for this bathroom, though there's another two to be done in the very near future. I'll run plastic cladding by the boss.

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[sunnybob]

My mrs was super impressed with the cladding, warm to the touch in the coldest wettest winter, no condensation, simply wipe down with a cloth, no grouting to go mouldy.
and for me, once the time had been taken to work out the run and get the first piece dead vertical, unbelievably fast to install.

Literally, no down side.

 

[Lons]

I guess it was when in the UK Bob 'cos you don't get winter in Cyprus :lol:

I've used cladding for customers on both ceilings and walls but there are a couple of minor downsides.
Have to be sure to clean carefully and with non abrasive products as it scratches and loses it's shine. If fixing anything to it you have to be careful not to overtighten or it can deflect and misshape, If you have kids or a careless other half it collects dents very easily and if caught with the corner of something hard it can be punctured in which case it's more difficult to replace a section than a single damaged tile.

Those reasons have stopped me using on my own walls but it's great for ceilings.

 

[Lons]

Hi Bob,

Centering the tiles on the window was my original plan when laying out for a horizontal brick bond pattern as it's the first thing seen when opening the door directly opposite, but with this vertical arrangement the offset would be glaringly obvious now you mention it.

In my situation you would centre the tiles on the wall regardless of the position of the window above, providing there would be no small slithers of tile on either side?

Cheers
Mark

P.S. You may not believe this, but I can guarantee the floor is flat and level in all directions





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Wow, a flat and level floor, that's a rare thing to find.

Fitting the tiles to look right is always a trade off where there's a window and bath on the same wall but to me always looks amateurish with a full tile width at one side and narrow cut the other. Remember also to check what the cut is immediately above the bath. It isn't rocket science though and I always found it quicker and easier to just set out in pencil on the wall than plan on paper and as I was being paid, time meant money.

cheers
Bob

 

[sunnybob]

I guess it was when in the UK Bob 'cos you don't get winter in Cyprus :lol:

I've used cladding for customers on both ceilings and walls but there are a couple of minor downsides.
Have to be sure to clean carefully and with non abrasive products as it scratches and loses it's shine. If fixing anything to it you have to be careful not to overtighten or it can deflect and misshape, If you have kids or a careless other half it collects dents very easily and if caught with the corner of something hard it can be punctured in which case it's more difficult to replace a section than a single damaged tile.

Those reasons have stopped me using on my own walls but it's great for ceilings.

Yes it was in the UK, but youre wrong, we do have winters here. So much that I had to install central heating 2 winters ago or the missus threatened to move back to the UK.

Jan and feb can go down to zero c overnight. Frost is not unheard of.

Agreed on the planking downsides if there are small kids, but we had two teenagers using the first one I did and it lasted for well over 10 years without damage. Without the grouting having to be scrubbed every year to remove black mould.

 

[Lons]

You must have had well behaved teenagers Bob. :lol:

Zero temp isn't a proper winter, at least not here up north. :wink: We got back from holiday last week and it was colder and wetter here than in Alaska :roll:

 

[sunnybob]

Rule with a rod of iron, and you rarely have to wield it. "explain" to children, and you have delinquents in the making. Good job I did, my boy grew up to be 6ft 6 and 20 stone. He was a night club bouncer at 17. If I hadnt got to him young........

trust me, when you are huddling under a duvet slung over your arm chair while watching early evening TV. and the single mobile gas heater is on three bars and water is dripping down the windows, THATS winter.

 

[Lons]

trust me, when you are huddling under a duvet slung over your arm chair while watching early evening TV. and the single mobile gas heater is on three bars and water is dripping down the windows, THATS winter.

Tell me about it.I live in Northumberland :lol: :lol:

 

[gregmcateer]

Mark,

Re the level/otherwise of the floor (and verticality of the walls); Do NOT start with the bottom tile, (unless you are ABSOLUTELY SURE the floor is completely level) - it almost certainly won't be - start slightly less than the height of the tile up the wall, and pin/screw a batten to support the ones above. Once they have all cured (i.e. next day), go back and accept you have to trim the tiles on the bottom row - it is worth the extra bother, honestly. (DAMHIK). You MAY get away with doing the bottom row first if the floor is VERY level AND you can allow for a fair sized space at the bottom - hidden with some water proof skirting, or oversized silicon bead / tile strip. Whatever you do, definitely use spacers at the bottom when tiling, to allow for movement in future.

Re the layout, I agree with Lons - calculate it out with pen and paper, including grout gaps and transpose your logic with small light pencil marks on the wall to see if your logic works in reality. I tend to try to get whole/nearly whole tiles into the corners, and if doing a brick bond, the next row will be a half on each wall - as if the tile is bent around the corner. It will almost certainly not go exactly like that, so the preparatory work calculating spacing will prove worth the time and effort.

Good luck with it and bam up a picture when you're done - and we can all make congratulatory / acerbic comments, depending on how you did!!

 

[Nelsun]

trust me, when you are huddling under a duvet slung over your arm chair while watching early evening TV. and the single mobile gas heater is on three bars and water is dripping down the windows, THATS winter.

Tell me about it.I live in Northumberland :lol: :lol:

*wave from Shetland* I'm sure our house moves a few feet with the westerlies each winter while the wind sooks the peat up the lum before it's even lit

Anyroad, following this thread with interest as tiling the bathroom is in our [read: my] imminent future.

 

[Mark A]

Hi chaps,

I've decided on a straight pattern for the walls and a 70/30 brick bond on the floor. I made a start on the floor 11pm tonight and finished 25% in about an hour.

I'm sorry we paid a tiler £1100 to lay tiles in the kitchen/diner and hallway now. Put it this way, I couldn't have done it any worse...

Have I just been unlucky with my choice of tradesmen, or are most of them generally crep? Electrician, two different plasterers, roofer and window fitter have all come well recommended, yet all turned out to be terrible.

So far, the only two which have impressed me is the groundworker who dug out new drains, and the woodburner installer.

I don't get it?




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[RogerS]

.....
Have I just been unlucky with my choice of tradesmen, or are most of them generally crep? Electrician, two different plasterers, roofer and window fitter have all come well recommended, yet all turned out to be terrible.
.....

Could be that you and I have higher standards than those recommending. I've been fortunate in my choice of builder as all his subbies have been top notch.

If you are doing the floor yourself then use these. They take out a lot of grief especially with large tiles.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008RJZVP0/ ... TE_3p_dp_1

Talking of large tiles (say, 800 x 400) and depending on their material, there is an acceptable amount of dishing/curvature in them. On the 800 x 400 tile, for instance, they can curved by as much as 4-6mm and be within spec. For that reason manufacturers recommend that brick bond is no more than 30%.

Your substrate needs to be spot on but I guess you already know that. And no flexing !! Fill a glass with water to the extent that the meniscus is showing and put it on the floor. Then walk on the floor past it. If it spills then your floor is flexing too much. And plywood not OSB in wet areas is recommended.