The Super Smoother thing...

[woodbrains]

Alan Peters is reputed to have only used a no 7. That's a daft idea too!

Hi,

Not reputed, said and wrote in his own words that he did. His furniture, being held in high regard as it is, contradicts entirely that it is a daft idea. It really rather proves that it might be something worth at least giving a try before dismissing as daft.

Wouldn't a No 5 1/2 be something akin to the size and at least aproaching the heft of a Norris panel plane, a super smoother of sorts? Of course it is not a law that a 5 1/2 or even a 7 should be used as a smoother, but it is not to be dismissed, either, if it works and is a personal preference.

Except you are likely to get new areas of tear-out if you attempt to smooth the whole of a surface, which is why you want a small plane to enable you to get at small areas of tear-out. Bin there dunnit - and got the belt sander out!

If your plane is truly sharp and well set up for the task, why would you be any more likely to get new areas of tearout, because the sole is longer? If there is tear free areas from the thicknesser, these will not be likely to tear from the hand plane. so why not level the whole surface with a long plane, deal with the tearout there is and not create localised hollows.

Resorting to the belt sander is evidence that the plane used is NOT likely to be sharp and well set up for the task, however.

Mike.

 

[Paul Chapman]

I use my #7 more frequently than any of my other planes and often for finishing work. Can't understand why some people see the use of a #7 as daft.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[David C]

Well said Paul & Mike.

I have certainly used my 7 for finishing work. It is a very well balanced plane.

David

 

[Jacob]

.........
Resorting to the belt sander is evidence that the plane used is NOT likely to be sharp and well set up for the task, however.

Mike.

Have you ever tried to finish a large table top (3' x 7') of tricky wood*, entirely by plane? I guess not.

Can we have some WIPs from our planing wizzos? Not just little samples in a vice but real projects?

*This was some very variable sycamore, cross grained, knotty, and strangely fibrous in parts. You can nearly get it all down but then it only takes a bit of tear out and you have to start again unless you accept the slight hollowing from smoothing locally with a small plane or a scraper. I tried it too with sapele tops and these too get nearly all the way there but never 100%. It planes really easily but tears out easily too.

What is a 'balanced' plane? Which are the unbalanced planes?

 

[Jacob]

I use my #7 more frequently than any of my other planes and often for finishing work. Can't understand why some people see the use of a #7 as daft.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Recent WIPs?

PS I was quite into the completely hand finished without sanding or scraping idea but it's often not possible. Depending on the wood, the bigger the project the less possible it is.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Jacod

Don't know why you don't believe people and I don't know why I am posting this as you won't believe it but, I re-plained my teak table top just before xmas with a No8.

Pete

 

[Jacob]

Hi, Jacod

Don't know why you don't believe people and I don't know why I am posting this as you won't believe it but, I re-plained my teak table top just before xmas with a No8.

.....
Pete

That's incredible Pete. Well done! Difficult wood and entirely the wrong plane!
Have you made many of these tables and would you finish entirely by hand with a no8, next time?

 

[Vann]

If your plane is truly sharp and well set up for the task...

Resorting to the belt sander is evidence that the plane used is NOT likely to be sharp and well set up for the task, however.

Come on, this is Jacob you're talking about :!:

Of course his planes aren't sharp - He uses coarse oilstones for final honing, and that silly rounded bevel.... (hammer)

Cheers, Vann :wink:

 

[matthewwh]

If it were called 'small try plane' rather than 'super smoother' I think people would find it easier to understand DC's concept.

Good quality machinery will get the timber to a similar state of accuracy that would be achieved with a jack plane in the traditional role. On small components (less than three feet for arguments sake) a 5 or 5-1/2 is plenty long enough to achieve an accurately flat surface. The way that the plane is set up is very similar to that of a smoother, and it will produce a smooth surface, but the plane is not performing the function of a smoother (to produce an aesthetically uniform surface, even if not perfectly flat, with minimal change to dimension).

 

[Richard T]

Exactly Matthew - try plane. For truing up.

I think that "Jack", and "fore" get all too often confused. A narrow 14" er with a 10" camber + is a fore and a 5 - 1/2 is meant to be a Try with less camber; - for taking the high spots off.

 

[Sawyer]

Have you ever tried to finish a large table top (3' x 7') of tricky wood*, entirely by plane? I guess not.

I have, often and agree with Jacob. My usual sequence: no. 5, no. 6, no. 4 or 4.1/2, then a cabinet scraper. If this leaves a few infinitessimal hollows, so what? If something is genuinely wrought by hand, then it's allowed to look like it, in my book.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Can we have some WIPs from our planing wizzos? Not just little samples in a vice but real projects?

Table tops can present problems because boards are often arranged for appearance rather than grain direction. There are various options for dealing with this to avoid tearout, such as back bevels on bevel-down planes or steeper angles on bevel-up planes. I tend to favour the scraper plane, which I find virtually foolproof. This 3' diameter table top in oak was finished entirely with a scraper plane

The advantage is that you don't get the tearout in the first place. Dealing with localised tearout using a card scraper risks depressions that can stand out like a sore thumb on something like a table top.

Some people say that a scraper plane does not leave such a good finish as an ordinary plane but I've not found that.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Jacob]

There you go then - 2 votes for the scraper so far.

A back bevel on a BD or a steeper angle on a BU basically turns them into scrapers, or in that direction anyway. So a "5 1/2 super smoother" which can finish 'gnarly wood' or whole table tops, has merely been adapted to become a scraper. A Stanley 80 does the same job with a lot less fiddling and 'tuning'.

MODERATED TO REMOVE ANTAGONISTIC COMMENT

 

[Paul Chapman]

You do love to distort things, Jacob, by putting your own interpretation on what people say. I would say that I try to use the most appropriate tools and techniques for the particular job in hand. For finishing that might be a scraper plane but in another situation it might be a different tool or technique.

My previous post was just one example of a tool and technique which I judged to be best for that particular situation.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Jacob]

If your plane is truly sharp and well set up for the task...

Resorting to the belt sander is evidence that the plane used is NOT likely to be sharp and well set up for the task, however.

Come on, this is Jacob you're talking about :!:

Of course his planes aren't sharp

Yes they are

- He uses coarse oilstones for final honing,

No I don't

and that silly rounded bevel.... ....

Still waiting for someone to tell me what is silly about it. :lol:

 

[Phil Pascoe]

#-o Why does every thread involving planes, chisels and sharpening things end up in the same place? #-o

 

[Racers]

You need to look for the common denominator.

Pete

 

[iNewbie]

#-o Why does every thread involving planes, chisels and sharpening things end up in the same place? #-o

Being abrasive is living-on-the-edge of bluntness.

 

[bugbear]

Hi, Jacod

Don't know why you don't believe people and I don't know why I am posting this as you won't believe it but, I re-plained my teak table top just before xmas with a No8.

.....
Pete

That's incredible Pete. Well done! Difficult wood and entirely the wrong plane!

Apparently it wasn't the wrong plane, judging by results

"Someone" on this forum keeps banging on about it only being the woodwork that matters, not the tools.

BugBear

 

[Fromey]

#-o Why does every thread involving planes, chisels and sharpening things end up in the same place? #-o

And with the same people......