Tenon Jigs

[Karl]

if you want an offset tenon cut one side, turn the adjustment knob however many mm you want the tenon offset by made easy as it has a measure scale to tell and away you go a couple of seconds and your done.

Hi Jon

I saw one of these jigs recently at another forum members 'shop. I was very impressed, but questioned the issue of all tenons being centred. When the set-up for off-centre tenons was explained, it made absolute sense. Cut all the cheeks for one side of the cut, re-set and cut the second.

Cheers

Karl

 

[Karl]

Also, if by any chance your stock varies slightly in thickness, which, I admit, it should not (but sometimes you have to go back and make a replacement component, so it is a different batch) then the tenons will be a different thickness. Referencing of two faces is simply not good practice, in any woodwork.

Steve - why would you need to flip the workpiece? You could easily unclamp and slip in a couple of shims behind the workpiece, as you did in your original jig - one being the thickness of the tenon, the second being the width of the blade kerf. That way you are referencing off one face.

Cheers

Karl

 

[Steve Maskery]

Yes, that would be a better way of doing it.

I don't think we are really fighting here. Although both jigs achieve the same end, one way or another, we are aiming at different people. Those who want to buy an off0the-shelf jig will not go to the trouble of making mine, and those who like to make their own jigs are not going to buy a ready-made one.

Jon is just putting over his reasons why his jig is good and I'm doing the same for mine.

Incidentally, Jon, I have used such a jig, not regularly, but I have used one and I believe that I am fully aware of their strengths and weaknesses. I devised mine after having used such a jig.

Perhaps we should have a head-to-head at the next bash!

S

 

[srp]

have you ever tried to do 100 tenons all the same on a bandsaw.

A you cannot get them all the same and B it takes forever.

These jigs are safe to use if used correctly, 1000's are sold each year in the UK and millions world wide. If in doubt just put a sliding box gaurd around the jig its not rocket science.

1. No but I have done 64. Have you?

2. Wrong and wrong

3. They are inherently unsafe, as they are not supplied with an adequate guard, and require removal of the saw's own crown guard. There do not appear to be any fixing points for attaching a guard. Perhaps you should post a picture of your guarding arrangement. While you're at it, maybe some British Standards and CE compliance information, or documentation from HSE as well?

Cutting tenons on long components in this fashion is also difficult, tricky to keep balanced as you pass it vertically over the saw table. That's why tenoners work in the horizontal mode, so that the work can be adequately supported. It's not rocket science.

It's also not a conventional rip cut, so a standard rip blade will not cut so easily - with a normal rip cut the wood is presented to the blade end grain first. Your jig presents the work side grain first, which makes it harder for the teeth to work cleanly. In fact, you're working the blade in a way which it is not designed to work, which is asking for trouble.

 

[squib]

srp.......When i did my machine ticket i was taught that the bandaw was the machine to be most wary of on account of its quiet action and as the table saw creates a feeling of danger which seems to be apparent from many members of the forum who seem to think of the TS as a frightening tool.I have made a similar jig to do tenons ( using a fine blade....it's not rocket science!)and feel that this jig is a well made and practical one for making tenons as for health and safety i believe that any tool would be banned by these guys and one should decide what is dangerous for an inexperienced w/worker may not be for a carefull one.Bring back conkers! :wink:

 

[hunggaur]

everyone is entitled to there own opinions and need to make there own minds up over these jigs

 

[hunggaur]

Perhaps we should have a head-to-head at the next bash!

Yes steve that would be good I may even buy you a pint if you are lucky

 

[Mattty]

I welcome comments and advice from anyone who owns one of these and fully understands how they work. However everyone who owns one has given positive feedback about the jig and how it works.

I think you need to be careful here. You are basically saying don't comment unless your gonna say nice things about the jig your using this forum too pedal. This is an open discussion forum and if your selling a product on here i suggest you get used to being questioned about it.

As the jig comes out of the box it would be illegal for me to use in a professional workshop- is this correct?
If so i think you should be selling this item with the advice that the jig will require additional guarding.

 

[hunggaur]

Hi matty many thanks for the comments and i do take them on board as you have raised some very valid points.

I am not all saying only give positive comment and do not be negative and i am sorry if it has come over this way it was never my intention for it to read this way i only want people to be balanced in there approach and not to condemn something just because you remove one guard which can be replaced with an other.

Having listened to Steve Maskery he has some very valid points and i am the first to agree when using this jig or any other tool you have to be safe.

If some posted that have one of the jigs and they have had XYZ problems with it then it need to be taken very seriously and addressed.

But all the negative comments appear to be coming from people who have not or do not use this type of jig regularly hence my concern

The answer to your question is yes as it comes out the box unless your saw has a suitable guarding arrangement you would need to put in place additional guarding for business use to meet current H&S requirements.

However all through the thread and comments I have been saying this make an additional sliding box guard to keep the blade covered even for home use.

In relation to selling the jigs to be frank i am not worried about selling them on here and i have changed the title of the thread deleted the details relating to selling them as this to be a discussion thread as i feel there is a much bigger picture here t be discussed.

Yes i am open to comments and criticism and the point in relation to guarding in particular is very important.

However please let all arguments be balanced. This jig would never have been developed and made if it was not suitable for job of cutting accurate tenons vertically.

As already stated any jig, machine or tool has to be used responsibility and safely if in doubt put extra guarding in place.

 

[srp]

You haven't answered my criticisms with respect to the cutting of long components or the fact that the blade is being worked in a way it wasn't designed to do. You have repeated your comments on guarding, which confirms that, as supplied, the jig is not safe to use. You haven't supplied a photo of a suitable guard. You haven't provided evidence of HSE approval or BS or CE certification.

You have also inferred that I am not qualified, or even entitled, to comment on your jig, because you assume I haven't cut tenons in this way using similar equipment, and because my comments aren't positive. You also assume that people can't look at the photo, work out how it is used, and therefore can't understand it. On re-reading my comments I think they are fair, measured and valid. If you or others don't think so then you are, of course, entitled to take that view. If you don't think I'm qualified to give an opinion, then so be it, but don't assume that I have no experience with machining.

The problem is, you're trying to sell. I'm a potential customer with the money in my pocket and can choose to spend it on what I like, and I'm free to do that with a critical eye open. If you choose a public forum to do your selling then you have to take what you get, good and bad alike.

Oh, and please don't tell me to read the thread properly. You asked if I had cut 100 tenons on a bandsaw. In answer to my "have you?' reply you tell me you cut 120 last week. Trouble is you didn't do them on a bandsaw, so your answer should have been 'No'.

 

[Tim Nott]

I have one of those. I don't find it dangerous, but rather limited.
You can only tenon the length of the projection of the tablesaw blade
You can only tenon pieces less than sawtable to ceiling height (in our troll-like workshop this is an issue)
You are limited in the thickness of the timber and tenon
It's tedious to do uneven shoulders or scribes
It ties up the table saw
The slide bar may not fit your saw table - I had to make my own

By the way it's THEIR opinions

 

[Noel]

Guys, please forget about how many tenons you've cut in one go, I suspect nobody is that interested and please, no more personal criticisms from anybody.

 

[Digit]

I've said nowt till now Noel but I go the other way. I have a home made version, can't afford a pro one, and I find it immensely useful! I have cut literally hundreds of tenons with mine and use no other method, personally I think such jigs are the Bee's knees!

Roy.

 

[squib]

+1 to Digits reply.

 

[Chems]

I have one of those. I don't find it dangerous, but rather limited.
You can only tenon the length of the projection of the tablesaw blade
You can only tenon pieces less than sawtable to ceiling height (in our troll-like workshop this is an issue)
You are limited in the thickness of the timber and tenon
It's tedious to do uneven shoulders or scribes
It ties up the table saw
The slide bar may not fit your saw table - I had to make my own

By the way it's THEIR opinions

For these reasons I've always felt that if I hadn't bought a domino or had to do some big mortices I would invest in a dado blade for the saw. Easily guarded and extracted from, and no limit on length of the mortice.

 

[big soft moose]

a bandsaw is quick and accurate. You just need the right jig. Coming soon to a woodworking magazine near you!

so steve, leaving Huungars jig aside would we be better off building your UTSTJ , or using your bandsaw jig :lol: ( you also have a router jig for tennons dont you )

 

[Noel]

I've said nowt till now Noel but I go the other way Hmmm...

. I have a home made version, can't afford a pro one, and I find it immensely useful! I have cut literally hundreds of tenons with mine and use no other method, personally I think such jigs are the Bee's knees!

Roy.

Hi Roy, too much information....... Seriously, I was just referring to the two boys arguing over who cut 120 tenons in one go or whatever they were on about.
BTW, such jigs are extremely useful and work very well.

 

[mailee]

I also use one of these jigs, a home made version and find it very useful. I have tried using the bandsaw but find it is not accurate enough for me. As for the question of guarding there are many machines and sharp tools in a woodworking shop many of which can cause injury if used incorrectly. It all boils down to having some common sense when using such machines. There are no guards on chisels or handsaws but we use them quite competantly without injury....well most of the time. Of course it is a different matter for a professional shop as this may employ trainees who may not have the common sense. JMHO. :wink:

 

[RogerS]

This thread has kind of lost it's way since a complete set of posts within it have been replaced by ..well..nothing. Does nothing to understand the pro's and con's and does nothing to make one want to buy one.

 

[Mattty]

This thread has kind of lost it's way since a complete set of posts within it have been replaced by ..well..nothing. Does nothing to understand the pro's and con's and does nothing to make one want to buy one.

Maybe you should start a poll Roger :lol: :lol: