Taking my business forward. How and do I need to rethink?

[Eric The Viking]

I had an idea recently I was hoping to patent, with a view to doing enough development on it to have something worth selling on, to be worked up into a commercial product by someone else.

These guys have strong views about patents - not very complimentary. I'd heartily recommend their book to anyone else thinking about work in that area. Design Right seems to be the more sensible way to go, not least because (a) it costs a lot less than a patent, (b) Trading Standards will act to prevent/remove knock-offs on sale to the public (they are not interested in patent infringements), (c) to sue an infringer is relatively easy, to defend a patent will bankrupt you.

Flanjab, if you can find a commercial partner, you might have a future business as a 'design house'.

After all, you have worked these products up into saleable items, you understand concrete technology and have debugged the chemistry/production materials to the extent you have a 'recipe' that works. It's just your cost of production and overheads that make artisan production impractical.

An other attractive possibility has also been discussed: using your expertise in the material as a consultancy/specialist build service. I can imagine there are many things that you could make with the material that would be hard to do or expensive in other ways, for example, reproduction leadwork for buildings (if you can cast detail), many sorts of kitchen appliance/fittings, and so on.

Reappraise, pay the bills by contracting, but don't let the spark go out.

E.

PS: There's a supplement to their book that's all about the issues with patenting. It's available from their site for free download. The book itself, A Better Mousetrap, could be a blueprint for what you want to do - I think it's really useful.

 

[Rhossydd]

Without wading through 8 pages of replies here's my few thoughts;

Maybe you should have the courtesy to read through it. Then you would not needlessly duplicate other people's comments and would be aware of the OP's response to them.

 

[shed9]

I don't want to put a damper on this topic however I would point out that this thread has the potential of becoming linked to the end product in question via future Internet searches. Whilst not necessarily a bad thing it could colour the product to some degree; good or bad but it should maybe be taken into account by the OP.

 

[rafezetter]

Without wading through 8 pages of replies here's my few thoughts;

Maybe you should have the courtesy to read through it. Then you would not needlessly duplicate other people's comments and would be aware of the OP's response to them.

Ahh but the more times the same "advice" is provided the more weight there is to what is being said instead of just seen as one persons isolated opinion, and I'm pretty sure I did say that at the end, if YOU had the courtesy of reading all of MY reply, that I took the time to write for the OP's benefit instead of just cutting out the first few lines to score points. Whatever you may personally feel about this or any other of my replies in the forum Rhossydd; I took the time to write my views in a constructive manner, however right or wrong YOU may perceive them, and many would agree that all feedback and opinions are good to receive, even if they are to be discarded later.

And by the way Rhossydd - I read 3 of the 8 pages which by that time I'd read enough to see what was being said, and I'm also pretty certain that 90% of the replies I've seen over the last few years posted to threads of longer than a few pages can also be guilty of reading a handful and replying without reading the entire lot; I don't remember "YOU MUST READ THE ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE REPLYING" as being one of the forums rules, so get over yourself.

And you have the barefaced to lecture ME on courtesy and do it publicly no less.

 

[mumble]

I haven't read all the way through this thread so if it has already been mentioned I apologise. but have you thought of advertising your products in something like Construction News or attending a Civil Engineering trade show?

 

[No skills]

Try to get some product placement with TV, a few samples sent out might get a couple of seconds airtime somewhere.
How about Houzz? Can you advertise through there, might get closer to your target market.

 

[flanajb]

I think this thread has run it's course now. But before I just wanted to answer the points that people made about the concrete bases looking plastic. Apologies for that, it was just poor photos. I have taken revised images and as you can see, they look far from plastic

 

[bugbear]

I think this thread has run it's course now. But before I just wanted to answer the points that people made about the concrete bases looking plastic. Apologies for that, it was just poor photos. I have taken revised images and as you can see, they look far from plastic

I don't think they look "concrete" enough.

Here's a company doing architectural stuff (baths, etc, at high prices, called "concreations").

Many of their options are very concrete-y.

Here's their palette page:
http://www.concreations.co.uk/colours.htm

BugBear

 

[Rhossydd]

I don't think they look "concrete" enough.

I agree, they could be plastic or Corian.

 

[flanajb]

I think this thread has run it's course now. But before I just wanted to answer the points that people made about the concrete bases looking plastic. Apologies for that, it was just poor photos. I have taken revised images and as you can see, they look far from plastic

I don't think they look "concrete" enough.

Here's a company doing architectural stuff (baths, etc, at high prices, called "concreations").

Many of their options are very concrete-y.

Here's their palette page:
http://www.concreations.co.uk/colours.htm

BugBear

GFRC is a fine sand / cement mix. You cannot use aggregate, so that look is out of the question. GFRC enables you to cast thin sections ~ 10mm. The strength comes from the fact that you use alkali resistant glass fibre in the mix. Even if you did use aggregate in the mix, you'd have to diamond grind the faces. I can see that could be possible on large flat surfaces, but on the curved faces would not.

 

[shed9]

I think this thread has run it's course now. But before I just wanted to answer the points that people made about the concrete bases looking plastic. Apologies for that, it was just poor photos. I have taken revised images and as you can see, they look far from plastic

Contact your local college / University, they will have contacts who take product shots for the students at reasonable rates and will likely do you a similar deal. It works out typically around £30 per shot on average and really is the difference between night and day in portraying your product images. I know a few people who have done this quite successfully with web shops.

 

[flanajb]

I think this thread has run it's course now. But before I just wanted to answer the points that people made about the concrete bases looking plastic. Apologies for that, it was just poor photos. I have taken revised images and as you can see, they look far from plastic

I don't think they look "concrete" enough.

Here's a company doing architectural stuff (baths, etc, at high prices, called "concreations").

Many of their options are very concrete-y.

Here's their palette page:
http://www.concreations.co.uk/colours.htm

BugBear

They do make some very nice stuff. They use concrete as opposed to GFRC

This is a very nice sink.

 

[MIGNAL]

Bling! Could go out of fashion in a couple of years. To be honest I think I prefer the more subtle flanajb concrete but perhaps that's just me. I can understand why the bling concrete might give someone a feeling of added value though.

 

[Jacob]

....
4. I googled conrete lamps, concrete clocks, conrete labs, the concrete labs, even googling "theconcretelab" gave me no results for your website in google. I......

There's a simple reason for this; very little text. Search engines search for text. You need to write an extended essay on your products and burble on constructively around the whole topic with lots of links and information. As much info as you can find on decorative use of concrete - terrazzo and the history thereof and so on. Plus useful stuff - DIY projects?
A website needs to be a resource in its own right, to attract the general reader and establish yourself as knowledgable and competent. It's not like a shop - you want 1000s of visitors (doesn't cost you anything they don't take up shop space) but only a few actually buying.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I quite like the concrete bling. Prefer it to the dull grey industrial look. Might need more than standard kitchen carcasses to support that sink though, I suspect.

 

[RobO]

This is a really interesting thread, and some excellent advise has already been given. I would just like to add, even if you don’t think you will be continuing with this as a business, it’s worth keeping your website online if there's a possibility that you may have a go again in the future. Google doesn’t like new sites. In my experience it takes at least 6 - 12 months to get a site ranking in Google for significant keywords. (Google Sandbox Effect). I would also reiterate the advise given by Jacob above regarding the website content.

Cheers
Rob

 

[beech1948]

flanajab,

A couple of odd thoughts and just to complete the cycle you have sent my brain on.

a) You can be both employed in a permasnent role and also at the same time be registered with HMRC as self employed so you could continue to explore whilst working.

b) You could also be employed and run a Ltd company.

c) Of the twom options the first is easiest the second a bit more complex and must have an accountant to verify the Co accounts.

The cycle you have started is that I have for some time been thinking about wall art or wall plaques as a business idea. The idea came from a trip to Chester and a visit to an art gallery where I saw a 5ft square painting which consisted of a frame, a painted background and some small ceramic shapes added as the main art form. The ceramic shapes were fairly brilliant colours and looked a bit like a peacocks tail. The whole combo of paint, ceramic and frame was quite startling and then really attractive. Sadley at £2995 it was outside my budget by quite a bit. BUT..................

I started to think...wooden panels, wooden panels and movements, ceramic shapes within wooden panels, ceramic panels with bits of wood.

Panels with say a moving mocking bird shape..saw a reference to an american plan yesterday...UMM?.

Could this possibly be a way forward for you. Maybe larger panel clocks..UMM??

Good luck

 

[marcros]

c) is not entirely correct- you do not need to have an accountant, but this is dependent on company size. there are exemptions for small companies.

 

[BearTricks]

What I'm taking away from this is that maybe doing something along the lines of how many woodworkers supplement their fine furniture work with kitchen fitting etc. Perhaps the lamps and clocks could be an aspect of the business but if you could figure out a way to incorporate the concrete in to larger projects such as worktops then you might have an earner on your hands.

I also prefer the slicker more minimal concrete with nothing added to it. It'll stand the test of time. I see glittery worktops from the 90s occasionally and they probably looked great (somehow) at the time but now they look like cheap tat.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

[wills-mill]

(I apologise if this has been mentioned elsewhere)

Have you thought of the impact of making the product physically more meaty? They are smashing looking things but if someone says concrete, then I want to see a desk lamp that threatens to destroy toes and crush desks!

One of the things I've found with timber products is a scale/price conundrum. Someone earlier mentioned the labour and component count put in to a green Ash footstool as an example- If you have a product that someone can tuck daintily into a carrier bag, they often want to only pay a high street price. There is often the issue that there is as much work in a small object as a large version of the same, with only a minimal difference in raw material cost. In fact, it's often the case that a small object is harder to make, as it's a fiddle to manipulate and has to finished to a more critical level of detail. Often the 'wow' factor and heft of a large object gives people the psychological confidence to pay a 'bespoke' price, it also helps that it's a talking/ gloating point over the cheese and wine at a party. You are selling an experience as much as a practical item....

My favourite moan about scale price is that your average furniture firm may have a range of Oak coffee tables. The 3ft will be £149, the 4ft £249, the 5ft £349. Why? because people are happy to pay more for more. The extra timber, finishing, transport, handling are fairly negligible, but retail confidence is another thing entirely.

http://www.johnlewis.com/browse/home-ga ... ps/_/N-cjt
http://www.johnlewis.com/browse/home-ga ... mps_010815
I don't think your prices are too much, perhaps compared to Ikea, but that is not you. John Lewis have a £2,400 anglepoise lamp for Gods sake!
I'm impressed with what can be done with the fibre reinforcement, but I feel that you could definitely use the wonder of the 'crete to create some bulk, not more minimalism?