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Table saw sliding carriage or not??

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Jonathan S

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ELMo Rippington":3enzpisz said:
Also saw the FELDER range at their factory and Milton Keynes and their stuff feels a bit more sturdy but you pay the price for it. But... with FELDER (if you can afford it) you get a saw, spindle, slider and dado capability. Only thing it doesn’t have is another mitre groove to the right of the saw.
Yours looks like a great option although I’m not sure the grid where I am would handle me stepping up to 3 phase.

I was limited with Power and went single phase 240v .....I have a Felder kf700 and have never found it a problem......unless your ripping 75mm/100mm deep stock constantly I see no power issue.

Regards the mitre slot to the right to the right of the blade, I have never missed this, I just use the slider.

Also, if buying new single phase 240v the resale value is better than 3 phase.





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Sploo, that’s a great bit of advice and I’ve saved that to my notebook so I can query it with my friend who’s doing my electrics. Just one thing though, there is no way of knowing if your power supply can handle the load prior to actually loading it is there? It’s just that when I say I’m at the end of the line, I really am.. It took such a long time to even get a phone line re-routed here and we are the very last consumer on our line with the last post in our yard.. just want to be sure before splashing out.

Johnathan, that looks like a great saw. So do you have the saw/spindle? I really fell for the kf500.. really wanted the kf500, a3-41 planer/thicknesser with spiral block and the n4400 bandsaw but while I could probably get those I would sort of rather go cheaper and put the money towards a the other stuff I need, a drum sander and a more reliable van!
Good point about 230 holding it’s value better as well.
 

Jonathan S

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ELMo Rippington":3ox0h379 said:
Johnathan, that looks like a great saw. So do you have the saw/spindle? I really fell for the kf500.. really wanted the kf500, a3-41 planer/thicknesser with spiral block and the n4400 bandsaw but while I could probably get those I would sort of rather go cheaper and put the money towards a the other stuff I need, a drum sander and a more reliable van!
Good point about 230 holding it’s value better as well.

Yep KF = saw spindle
K = saw only
500 series's is basically a hammer chassis(lighter construction to the 700 seried) with a 700 series xroll sliding carrage.

When I was looking at saws I had a hammer budget, I went to the felder showroom and felt all there saws but didn't look at them.....when I felt the difference between them I had to go 700 series's.

With the Planner thicknesser thankfully they had no 700 series to show.....I bought a Hammer A331(not spiral).
It's been a great workhorse, I got a power feeder hooked up to ues on it, it will take off up to 3mm per pass, which is ok for me in a one man shop doing low production stuff.

If I had originally had the space I would of bought separates but I didn't, and the combo KF works ok if your organised.

Will try and attach a couple of photos

f1ab8d4f8591faa82a6fde3c6c22ce77.jpg
e1ed4b841fbd61c34aa1a8851a2e1172.jpg
63bcc68921995380965f086c176becf5.jpg


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sploo

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ELMo Rippington":2qhhbihh said:
Sploo, that’s a great bit of advice and I’ve saved that to my notebook so I can query it with my friend who’s doing my electrics. Just one thing though, there is no way of knowing if your power supply can handle the load prior to actually loading it is there? It’s just that when I say I’m at the end of the line, I really am.. It took such a long time to even get a phone line re-routed here and we are the very last consumer on our line with the last post in our yard.. just want to be sure before splashing out.
If you have UK mains sockets (and the wiring in the property is of an acceptable standard) then in theory you can draw something around 13Ax230V~=3000W; which is around 4hp (pretty normal for a kettle, frankly).

In reality, a decent induction motor might be somewhere in the 85% to 95% efficiency range; so a 4hp motor may be risky from a 13A mains socket.

The main problem is inrush current on startup; which can be 5 or more times the running current. Hooking a 3hp single phase induction motor up via a 13A mains plug is likely to toast the fuse in the plug. With the VFD units (and a three phase motor) you can control the frequency of the output power; including setting ramp up and ramp down times. As such, you can get your machine to spin up over a couple of seconds; which greatly reduces the inrush current. Both my 12" planer and 12" table saw run happily from 13A plugs via their VFDs.

If you have a consumer unit in the garage/workshop, then you might be able to install a 16A MCB, and either give yourself a 16A single phase line (the blue plugs - likely OK for a 3hp single phase motor) or directly wire in a 4hp VFD; should you get a three phase machine needing more than 3hp.
 

deema

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Or indeed install a 32A socket, again a blue plug with a class C MCB and run a larger motor
 

sploo

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deema":331a7bg8 said:
Or indeed install a 32A socket, again a blue plug with a class C MCB and run a larger motor
That would be a big motor :wink:

I don't know what the advice is for commercial premises, but for "my garage" I've generally taken the view that using the lowest amperage MCB for the kit that'll be plugged into it is probably going to give the most protection - i.e. something that will trip early and not fry things in the event of a short.

I did have to change my 5A MCB for the lighting circuit from a type B to a C though; the drivers for the LED lighting panels have a fairly nasty inrush current and it was often tripping a type B when they were turned on; despite the running load being a fraction of 5A.
 

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When it comes to motors and machinery, please remember that the circuit breaker in your consumer unit is not there to protect your machine. It's sized to protect your fixed wiring - from overheating in case of overload or a dead short.
To protect your motors, you need either the right size of thermal overload built into the machine and correctly set or a VFD that has been properly programmed with the motor fuil load current and what overload profile is right for the use. Machines / pumps / fans / ... are at different risk of overload so you set them up differently.
Working on used machines it's not unusual to find that they have been meddled with: the wrong size thermal trip can be fitted or it is set at the highest end of it's range. If you buy a "DOL" starter (say to replace one that is damaged or failed) they sometimes come with an overload relay already fitted and these tend to be a at the higher end like (say) 10 Amps. If you install this on a fractional horsepower motor for a drill or lathe that is only designed for 3 or 4 amps full load, it will not protect the motor properly. You need to buy a smaller rated overload and replace the standard one. Some people don't understand this and others choose not to fork out the tenner for the proper thermal overload relay.
 

sploo

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Sideways":28dlvzja said:
When it comes to motors and machinery, please remember that the circuit breaker in your consumer unit is not there to protect your machine. It's sized to protect your fixed wiring - from overheating in case of overload or a dead short.
To protect your motors, you need either the right size of thermal overload built into the machine and correctly set or a VFD that has been properly programmed with the motor fuil load current and what overload profile is right for the use. Machines / pumps / fans / ... are at different risk of overload so you set them up differently.
Working on used machines it's not unusual to find that they have been meddled with: the wrong size thermal trip can be fitted or it is set at the highest end of it's range. If you buy a "DOL" starter (say to replace one that is damaged or failed) they sometimes come with an overload relay already fitted and these tend to be a at the higher end like (say) 10 Amps. If you install this on a fractional horsepower motor for a drill or lathe that is only designed for 3 or 4 amps full load, it will not protect the motor properly. You need to buy a smaller rated overload and replace the standard one. Some people don't understand this and others choose not to fork out the tenner for the proper thermal overload relay.
Good point. Wasn't thinking straight re protection of the motor vs the wiring.

The VFDs I bought can be configured for the motor's maximum power (I presume to protect the motor); which I have configured.
 
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Jonathan S":30ikitn8 said:
ELMo Rippington":30ikitn8 said:
Johnathan, that looks like a great saw. So do you have the saw/spindle? I really fell for the kf500.. really wanted the kf500, a3-41 planer/thicknesser with spiral block and the n4400 bandsaw but while I could probably get those I would sort of rather go cheaper and put the money towards a the other stuff I need, a drum sander and a more reliable van!
Good point about 230 holding it’s value better as well.

Yep KF = saw spindle
K = saw only
500 series's is basically a hammer chassis(lighter construction to the 700 seried) with a 700 series xroll sliding carrage.

When I was looking at saws I had a hammer budget, I went to the felder showroom and felt all there saws but didn't look at them.....when I felt the difference between them I had to go 700 series's.

With the Planner thicknesser thankfully they had no 700 series to show.....I bought a Hammer A331(not spiral).
It's been a great workhorse, I got a power feeder hooked up to ues on it, it will take off up to 3mm per pass, which is ok for me in a one man shop doing low production stuff.

If I had originally had the space I would of bought separates but I didn't, and the combo KF works ok if your organised.

Will try and attach a couple of photos

f1ab8d4f8591faa82a6fde3c6c22ce77.jpg
e1ed4b841fbd61c34aa1a8851a2e1172.jpg
63bcc68921995380965f086c176becf5.jpg


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May I ask how you went from a hammer budget to getting 700series? It’s fine if you would rather not say.
Did you get second hand?
I know what you mean, I thought the hammer was more sturdy than the small CMS if I’m honest then felt the 500 with the x roll and it was so sturdy. I just don’t think I can stretch the extra £ to get one
 
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Re all of you above talking about the electrics. I’m going to have to do some background research on this to have a full understanding of what you are saying. It obviously makes sense but I have no proper working understanding of how to problem solve and think freely in that area of electrics (if that makes sense) thanks so much for all the info =D>
 

sploo

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ELMo Rippington":2xf8vsum said:
Re all of you above talking about the electrics. I’m going to have to do some background research on this to have a full understanding of what you are saying. It obviously makes sense but I have no proper working understanding of how to problem solve and think freely in that area of electrics (if that makes sense) thanks so much for all the info =D>
Basically: Sideways pointed out that the MCBs in the consumer unit (what used to be fuses in the old-school boxes) are there to protect the wiring in the property. Assuming each MCB had been chosen appropriately for the wiring it's supporting (0.75mm^2, 1.5mm^2 etc) then an attempt to pull more current than would be safe for the wiring would be prevented by the MCB tripping out.

If you can boil a kettle from one of your 13A mains sockets then you should be able to run a 3hp three phase motor with a VFD (with the VFD running off a standard 13A plug).

If you needed to support a 3hp (or higher) single phase motor then you'd need to add a dedicated line to your workspace - which would be dependant on space in the consumer unit, and the limits of the incoming supply.
 

Jonathan S

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[/quote]

May I ask how you went from a hammer budget to getting 700series? It’s fine if you would rather not say.
Did you get second hand?
I know what you mean, I thought the hammer was more sturdy than the small CMS if I’m honest then felt the 500 with the x roll and it was so sturdy. I just don’t think I can stretch the extra £ to get one

[/quote]



Going from hammer to 700 series was hard financial, I bought new in 2014 and Spain was still in recession so was able to get a very nice discount, also helped that I had just landed a commission to build a library that would take a year to build.

For me I belive I would of regretted buying the hammer, where is the 700 series makes me smile every time I use it.....for me it was cry once.





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