table saw fence parallel?

[sunnybob]

Help me, I;m a newbie :roll:
My dw 745 table saw fence appears to be very slightly out of parallel with the blade, but I dont know if thats supposed to be or not.
At the moment the rear is very slightly closer to the blade than the front. That seems wrong to me, but exactly what is the best setting?
If cutting smaller pieces of wood, they are quickly thrown up as they reach the teeth at the back of the blade.

How bizzarre is this? on my post i wrote the work F L I C K (in lower case) when describing the woods reaction. But in the main post it has been replaced with Pick (not my upper case)
Censorship is all well and good but I hadnt even considered that word offensive.

Mod edit- sorry about the word censorship, F L I C K is part of the F followed by K group of words. I've edited your post to make more sense.

 

[Bodgers]

Help me, I;m a newbie :roll:
My dw 745 table saw fence appears to be very slightly out of parallel with the blade, but I dont know if thats supposed to be or not.
At the moment the rear is very slightly closer to the blade than the front. That seems wrong to me, but exactly what is the best setting?
If cutting smaller pieces of wood, they Pick up as they reach the teeth at the back of the blade.

Troll post sunnybob?

If it isn't then it being tighter at the back is potentially dangerous due to the pinching and possible resulting kickback.

It should be ideally parallel, if not, then a touch wider at the back.

There should be a way to adjust it, not sure how that works on these two point clamping DeWalt fences...

 

[sunnybob]

youre too quick. I had to edit my post due to censorship. :shock:
No, serious question from a first time table saw owner. :roll:

 

[MikeG.]

Just as a matter of interest, Bob, how did you measure this?

 

[novocaine]

step 1, check the fence against the mitre slot.
step 2, check the blade against the mitre slot.

this will tell you what needs adjusting if anything.

how much out of alignment is the fence? (just out of interest at this point.)

 

[sunnybob]

Bodgers, this fence is an amazing thing. the adjustment could not be simpler, once i know what to adjust it to.
Mike........ vernier gauge from the fence to the tip of the nearest tooth horizontal to the table.

Novocaine.......... The wood is obviously pinching as it leaves the blade. On a piece of hard wood an inch high the blade is scoring the wood on its way past.
I'm reasonably confident the fence needs adjusting.
I just need to know what parameters I should be adjusting it to;
Parallel? decimal points of a mm out or in?
Bear in mind this is a full width fence, overhanging the table at both ends.
There is a slight inwards lean on the fence anyway (1.2 mm over a 70 mm height), which I can adjust using a couple shims under the bolts that hold the ali fence to the ends, but i might as well do both adjustments at the same time.

 

[GK1]

I have my fence adjusted to a fraction of a millimetre wider at the back. Probably 0.2mm or so at the back edge of blade. As long as you can do it safely, cut a piece of faced chipboard or something and make sure it's tight to the fence all the way, the back teeth should be clear of the piece with no spoiling, but almost too small a gap to see.

 

[novocaine]

ok, I'll elaborate Bob.
the reason I ask is that if the fence is square to the mitre then the whole table is out of wack rather than just the fence.

this makes it appear (assuming you are relying on just the fence for assessment) that the fence is out of line, when in actuallity it's the blade thats out of line to the table.
if it isn't square to the mitre slot it is a fairly easy adjustment to make, set it parallel to the mitre slot and you are good to go (much easier than trying to adjust to the blade and get it right as you have more to measure from), if you set it to the blade then the mitre slot will still be out and you'll find the fence out again in different places.

if the table is out of square it's a different adjustment (normally involving loosening the table mounts and resetting) measuring from the mitre slot. best to do this with calipers if you can.

so as I asked before, step 1, check it against the mitre slot.
step 2, check the mitre slot against the blade.

Make sense?

 

[MikeG.]

My point was so obtuse that I couldn't expect anyone to get it. Measuring to a blade assumes the blade is flat, that the teeth are evenly worn, and that the pressure on each edge of the flexible blade was the same when taking the 2 measurements. It also assumes you are measuring at a right angle each time. There's enough doubt with all those factors that I'd worry about the precision of any such measurement, and so surely there must be a better way of doing it.

 

[sunnybob]

Novocaine has explained the (to me) missing link in telling me what to adjust and in what order,
Ta muchly.

Mike, I found a very good tube vid explaining about the reference point on the blade and using the same one at both ends.A female was using some stupidly expensive kit called A line it.
I have a dial gauge , aint buying those alloy bars, even if they do come in a posh box.
So between the two of you and t'internet i know what to do now.
Thanks all.

 

[novocaine]

Yes there is Mike. you work to the fixed points. That is the mitre slot and the that is the output shaft (fixed in 1 plane for this assessment)

Not many people have the tooling to do that though, so you make some assumptions and you work empirically (which Bob is doing by says the blade catches on the up stroke)
does it cut straight with the mitre gauge and slot? if yes then "it must be right". does the fence line up with said slot if yes then "it must be right".
if no to either of these then somethings wrong. hence the 2 steps I suggest above.



missed your reply Bob.
you have a dial indicator. great, stick it to your mitre fence guide and slide it along from back to front. turn the blade through 90 and do it again. there will always be some run out, by taking the mulitple measurement you should be able to get "close enough" for wood work.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I have mine set as close as possible to parallel. If you have it a bit wider (and I mean thous rather than mms), then that will give you a slightly cleaner cut, but if you ever use a jig or sliding sled, or you need to have the fence to the left of the blade, it will be wrong for that. So parallel is the way to go.
Tablesaw setup is not difficult, but you do have to do the right things in the right order or it will take you days and a lot of wasted time and materials.

 

[MikeG.]

Yes there is Mike. you work to the fixed points. That is the mitre slot and the that is the output shaft (fixed in 1 plane for this assessment)

Not many people have the tooling to do that though, so you make some assumptions and you work empirically (which Bob is doing by says the blade catches on the up stroke)
does it cut straight with the mitre gauge and slot? if yes then "it must be right". does the fence line up with said slot if yes then "it must be right".
if no to either of these then somethings wrong. hence the 2 steps I suggest above.

......

As I say, non table saw owner here.........but I think I'd be tempted to cut some thick mdf into a roughly blade-sized circle, put a hole in it, and put it in place of the blade for the purpose of setting up the machine initially. At least that way you're taking one of the potential inaccuracies away.

 

[memzey]

I have mine set as close as possible to parallel. If you have it a bit wider (and I mean thous rather than mms), then that will give you a slightly cleaner cut, but if you ever use a jig or sliding sled, or you need to have the fence to the left of the blade, it will be wrong for that. So parallel is the way to go.
Tablesaw setup is not difficult, but you do have to do the right things in the right order or it will take you days and a lot of wasted time and materials.

This x 20 if you are setting up a radial arm saw!

 

[Steve Maskery]

As I say, non table saw owner here.........but I think I'd be tempted to cut some thick mdf into a roughly blade-sized circle, put a hole in it, and put it in place of the blade for the purpose of setting up the machine initially. At least that way you're taking one of the potential inaccuracies away.

I mark a particular tooth with a marker pen and measure to that, when it's at the front and when it's at the back. The problem with a piece of mdf is that it may well not be properly flat, not to the tolerances we are trying to measure here.

 

[sunnybob]

Soon as it stops raining and I have fixed the holes in the workshop roof, I shall do it as per.
Its not easy at the moment walking through puddles and switching stuff on and off.

Memzey... you should be here, you would love it. we have had three consecutive months of double the average rainfall. the reservoirs are overflowing, and we are all suffering chronic sunlight deprivation. This time last year I was into shorts and t shirt. This year i might as well be back in the UK in December.

 

[memzey]

Mate, it sounds a lot more bearable than the 44* and over it regularly hits during summer! Currently a balmy 13* and sunny here in in London - lovely!

 

[MikeG.]

By the same token, you'd mark a spot on the mdf and measure to that. At least it isn't flexible, and you would be able to measure a right angle from it to the fence. Like I say, I don't have a dog in this fight, so this is simple curiosity.......piqued by the buggeration that is setting up my RAS*.

*I wouldn't dream of using this for cutting accurate right angles now. Hand tools every time......

 

[MikeG.]

...... i might as well be back in the UK in December.

It's lovely here ATM, as it has been for a week. I'll be out on my bike shortly, in shorts.

 

[sunnybob]

I dont mind you lot sneering at my weather this year (no, honestly :roll: )
this is my 11 th year here, and this is only the second wet winter.
The problem is its like deep snow in England, when it does happen nobody knows what to do with it. We dont even have mains drainage in the streets, let alone our houses.
Memzey might not like our summers, but roll on 35c (about another 3 weeks if I'm lucky) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Mike, a problem with your MDF test wheel, theres no way I could make a 30 mm hole in the middle of it and be CERTAIN its 90 degrees and concentric.