Startrite 352 collection and inverter

[Oaktree11]

Hi Guys,

Well, I have followed some of the advice on this great site and bought a Startrite 352 instead of more modern imported equipment. It feels good actually!

I have to collect it and I need some advice about what will be needed. I have a Mercedes estate and, if necessary, a trailer (its a car trailer with a fully sheeted deck)

I could do with some advice on how it can be broken down for transport, if at all, if not it will be the trailer but will have to lie down. Any advice welcome.

Second point is that it is 3 phase which i dont have so I will be going down the inverter route. Any recommendations would also be welcome.

Thanks in advance

John

 

[SurreyHills]

Well done, you won't be disappointed. The 352 is around 190cm high and you can't really break it down. What you will be able to do is take the table off - it is held in place on a trunion by 4 bolts (mine are are M6 Allen bolts) and it separates into 2 pieces.

You may be able to take the motor off - the wiring is a bit fiddly and I would take the plug off and pull the wires back through the IP65 connectors. If in a rush just cut the cable and rewire when you get it home.

Mine was a 240V so didn't need to go down the inverter route. You could look at switching to 240V and putting a new single phase motor on. I think it only shipped with a 1hp motor and I sometimes feel mine would be better with a more powerful motor. The cost of a new motor would probably be around the same as an inverter. But of course you would need to change the switch .
Andy


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[RobinBHM]

I always find a sheet of ply or osb board underneath whateve is being transported is useful, it allows for some blocks of wood to be screwed in any position to lock the machine in place and avoid it shifting.

Also take some ratchet straps.

If the machine can take a standard motor, ie shaft and footplate mounting then it may be worth considering a change of motor as an option. Worth pricing up anyway.

 

[Fitzroy]

There are a number of threads on here about motor changes and/or inverters. I have a huanyang inverter off eBay on my 3 phase planer, was about £100 and has been fine, but only occasional use. Had to rewire the motor from delta to star also as the inverter can only change single phase to three phase it can't change the voltage, so the motor has to be wired to work at 240v.

It took a fair bit of reading and thinking to figure out the whole motor, inverter, switch, wiring malarkey but it was an interesting learning experience that I really enjoyed.

F.

 

[Jacob]

..... What you will be able to do is take the table off - it is held in place on a trunion by 4 bolts (mine are are M6 Allen bolts) and it separates into 2 pieces. ....

Actually it's held in place by one nut and no need to take off the trunnion or split it. Makes it much easer to move but there's nothing else you can easily take off. Sack trolley is handy.

 

[Wizard9999]

I'm sure with the word "inverter" in the title of the thread Myfordman Man aka 9Fingers will be along shortly. He sorted out an inverter for me for a 3 phase drill I bought, pre-programmed it as far as possible before sending and provided very clear instructions for installation.

A new single phase motor will give you the option of more power, but an inverter will give you an advantage re speed control. Guess it all depends what you will be using the saw for as to which is the better option.

Terry.

 

[flh801978]

I have a mercedes e class estate and i have carried a few startrite bandsaws in them
Just take the table off and the trunnion if you think it may be prone to getting knocked
Move it to the rear of the load area and push it over in to the bay...i had a wheeled dolly to rest the head end on and lifted the foot end and wheeled it in.

Fitting an inverter is easy enough if you have a dual voltage motor.
One of mine had a braked motor on it so that was more problematic to sort out

Ian

 

[deema]

415v and 240v are the same! Down every steeet in the UK,the power to each home is taken from one of the three phases. Each phase is 240V but each phase is 120 degrees out of phase with the next. As a consequence when the voltage is measured across two phases it reads 415V.

A star motor configuration requires a neutral connection at the centre or the star for the configuration to work. An inverter cannot generate easily a neutral so requires motors to be configured in delta which does but require a neutral.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

What I did was to take a sack/hand truck with me. I then loaded the saw into the car still attached. It fitted, just. It made unloading so much easier. We slipped lengths of 2x4 behind it when lifting. to avoid twisted the frame of the saw. I didn't let the seats lay fully flat (pillows under), to avoid the saw moving forward under breaking. Then it was all tied down with ratchet straps. I put chocks under the wheels and padded all around it with pillows and blankets to avoid damage to trim and hold the whole thing in place.

Take some gloves (blade removal) and a set of spanners. I'd also suggest some WD40.

I'd recommend 3 strong people for getting it in and out of the car, particularly an estate. You can do it with two, but three helps to prevent damage to the car. I moved mine an Audi A3, so you'll likely have an easier time with an estate.

 

[Jacob]

Take the table off (one nut) and one man can move it on a sack trolley with the back (opposite the table) against the trolley and resting on your shoulder, as long as there are no steps. I move mine around the workshop regularly - don't need to take the table off but it'd make for easier handling in and out of a car. The back is straight and flat so once you've got the top in it'll slide the rest of the way. Not really much danger of twisting the frame!

 

[flh801978]

415v and 240v are the same! Down every steeet in the UK,the power to each home is taken from one of the three phases. Each phase is 240V but each phase is 120 degrees out of phase with the next. As a consequence when the voltage is measured across two phases it reads 415V.

A star motor configuration requires a neutral connection at the centre or the star for the configuration to work. An inverter cannot generate easily a neutral so requires motors to be configured in delta which does but require a neutral.

Not sure i agree with what you are saying? in what way are 240v and 415v the same?
Yes thats how power is distributed but that doesnt help the OP

A star configuration on a motor does not require a neutral to work
inverters that a home user uses generally have to be 240v as thats all the supply he has
inverters for 3 phase 415v are widely used to give variable speed
if you rewire a 3 phase motor to delta ( ie 240V) the motor is still 3 phase still does not need a neutral but the supply to the inverter is 240v live and neutral

Ian

 

[Oaktree11]

Guys, thank you so much for all the help. I feel much encouraged! I am collecting it on Wednesday and will report back then. I am now happy that it will go in the car.
I think an inverter is the way to go for me. I am unlikely to do any really heavy work but I bought this following the advice (on this site, oft repeated!) that bigger is better in bandsaws.
I am sure that this will be the first of many cries for help so standby!
Thanks again
John

 

[graduate_owner]

I bought a 351 and just stood it upright in my trailer, well secured with ratchet straps. Drove carefully, and no problems. There are plenty of threads on this forum regarding 3 phase inverters. I have posted several myself. Just to clarify, the motor will have to be dual voltage and connected in delta mode. If the motor is just 415 volts then you could take it to a motor rewind firm. I did this with one of my motors (not the startrite) and the firm delved into the windings and brought out the required connections. This cost me about £35 and saved a deal of hassle with pulley sizes and frame mounting etc., plus the cost of a replacement motor so I thought it was well worth it.
Read my comments about not using original switchgear, makes of inverter, and suitable housing for the inverter to prevent dust and moisture ingress.
You will get the advantage of variable speed and reverse - not much use on a bandsaw but very useful on things like lathes. However if you needed to cut metal then slow speed would be useful. If you are thinking of other machines running on 3 phase (I have 5 machines running on 3 phase now) then it may be a good investment - make sure the inverter you buy is likely to handle the power of the largest motor!!

K

 

[Wizard9999]

John

On the inverter I really would suggest contacting Bob (Myfordman). There are a lot of people on here who seem to have a lot of knowledge on electrickery, I am not one of them. All I know is that having sent Bob pictures of my drill and the plate on the motor, which seems to show the motor is only 415v, he was able to select an appropriate inverter, pre-programme it and send it with very clear instructions on how I could do the final installation. No motor rewinding, no rewiring the motor needed by me.

Terry.

 

[Oaktree11]

Thanks again all of you.
On the inverter front I will certainly take any advice going.
I understand how the VFD works but one thing I am puzzling over is how it will fit in with the machines existing controls. Do you keep both sets or bypass the existing controls and just use the VFD?

John

 

[Tortion-Stephen]

In general the original switch would be removed and you use the inverter to control the saw (I guess mostly run and stop, though you could alter the speed of the blade for certain operations)

Seconded the view on 'Myfordman' he helped me with my Meddings Drill on another forum and is a renowned authority.

Good saw, by the way!

 

[graduate_owner]

I was told by an engineer who repairs inverters that you should connect the inverter output directly to the motor, so that is what I have done on all 5 of my 3 phase machines and have had no problems. I regard a control cable to give remote stop start as essential for safety, my stop start / speed control is contained in a plastic box with magnets glued on the base so I can position it in an easy to reach location.

Regarding dual voltage motors, there are inverters which contain step up transformers and so will produce 415 volts but they are more expensive. I have tried running a 415 volt star connected motor from a 240 volt inverter and it did start, but I seem to remember the inverter kept cutting out. That was when I decided to have the motor terminals brought out by the rewinding company, assuming that was the problem. Then I discovered the inverter was faulty anyway, so I haven't tried that since. Others on the forum may have experience of that.

Just to be clear, you don't need to actually rewind the motor. It is a case of delving into the windings to bring out the connections so the motor can be connected in delta mode. That cost me £30 ( might have been £35) about 10 years ago.

I would like to repeat my comment about an enclosure. The instructions on my inverter are quite clear - no moisture or dust, especially from metal grinding etc. So if you want it to last then buy an inverter with an enclosure rated at IP65 or so, or do what I did and make an enclosure. Mine is made from an old desktop computer case and the casing of an oil boiler. I made it large enough to allow air circulation and so avoid the unit overheating, and wired a 50 degree thermostat into the supply so it will cut out if there is any chance of overheating. The enclosure is about 2ft x 1ft x 1ft, mounted on castors and so can be wheeled to each machine. I really need to get a 3 phase extension lead, then I won't need to move it around and can keep it in a corner out of the way.

I hope this clarifies some issues. It is not meant to be a definitive instruction guide, just my exprience to date.

K

 

[Fitzroy]

With regards to controls. As many have said the inverter has to be connected directly to the motor. However, the inverter has a bunch of other connection and set-up options. One of the connection sets is a start/run connection, ie if you close the loop between these two connections the inverter starts the motor. I reused the original start/stop switch on my Wadkin planer to close this loop, i then squirrelled the inverter away in a Tupperware container, to protect it from dust. This gives my machine a nice original feeling rather than having to interact with the horrid plastic buttons on the inverter. The inverter is not 100% efficient so it does generate some heat and so mounting it inside a closed plastic container may not be ideal, however even pretty substantial planing sessions have not see the inverter and plastic container getting anything more than slightly warm.

F.

 

[Oaktree11]

Thanks again guys. Hopefully this is the only 3 phase machine i will have so the inverter will be dedicated to this machine. I take the point about a suitable enclosure and i have planned for this.
I think i would like to control on/off from the original switchgear and was hoping that there would be provision within the inverter for this and a an emergency stop. I am just getting started researching Inverters.

John

 

[marcros]

this may be worth a look for-sale-brook-crompton-electric-motor-single-phase-t83308.html