Starting a Rietveld Build

[MickCheese]

Jacob, Pete & Marcros

Thanks for the informative responses. Makes sense, using effort, planning away bits of a board only to throw some of it in the bin, if I were doing this day in day out then all that wasted energy would soon add up.

Mick

 

[mn pete]

Using a 13" power planer, my tact has always been to keep stock as large as possible when running boards through. That's a pretty common method from what I've observed in both pros and amateurs. I do get the point that if I were hand planing I could save myself a lot of work by planing only what I needed.

In this case, I was able to re-saw all of the Beech and then plane down to the 30mm thickness needed for the chair design and after some additional planing, I now have a nice little stack of 1/4" thick Beech to use in a future project.

 

[Jacob]

Using a 13" power planer, my tact has always been to keep stock as large as possible when running boards through. That's a pretty common method from what I've observed in both pros and amateurs. ......

I'm sure it is, but it's still better to cut stock first and only then plane/thickness, as a general rule.
Often you have to otherwise it wouldn't be possible to do the job with the stock available. For instance if you were making a house door from 2" material your target thickness would be 44mm. Timber is often so bent that the 44mm would not be possible for longer lengths (stiles), so you'd cut these first from the straightest pieces in your stock and reserve and cut the bendier bits for the shorter rails.
Or your 30mm finished stuff for the Reitveld chair; if your sawn stock was 1 1/2" (37mm) then you should be able to get 30mm from most of your stock - but not all of it, if there are bendy bits, unless you cut them to length first.
On the other hand you might get away with buying 1 1/4" (32mm) which in shorter lengths could just about give you 30mm finished but with 17% less material (perhaps not but you see what I mean).
If you are also keeping your offcuts un-planed these also go back into stock for future use and save more timber.
Basically this is how it's done 'professionally', on any scale.

 

[Chrispy]

More to the point when you rip up a large board it nearly always springs one way or the other, if you have already planed it up you would have to replane it true, so I always do as " " said and cut to length + a bit, face, edge then thickness then cut to length as required.

 

[Jacob]

More to the point when you rip up a large board it nearly always springs one way or the other, if you have already planed it up you would have to replane it true, so I always do as " " said and cut to length + a bit, face, edge then thickness then cut to length as required.

:roll: is right - well done :roll: .
That's another reason. In fact if you leave the long board for a few days even if it's straight to start with it'll probably bend anyway,and spring when you cut it, so you'll have to plane even more off.

 

[bugbear]

Mmmm

I have been told keep your wood as long as possible for as long as possible, snipe can be a problem, and you can't get short pieces through a planer.

Jacobs way and the wrong way?

Pete

I think two practices are being munged together here. Lacking computerised optimal cutting software, the old rule of thumb for stock management was indeed "keep your timber as long as possible for as long as possible".

Or to put it another way, if you need a 2 foot length, don't cut it off an 8 foot piece.

This is a perfectly good rule of thumb (not optimal, obviously)

The best techniques for managing planing are a separate/different matter.

If your stock is not warped gang planing is more accurate and faster. If the stock is warped, cutting it shorter reduces waste, as Jacob mentioned.

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

Pete, now that the collective has sorted the stock preparation, I'd welcome some pictures of the chair being made, if you are still willing to take some and share them! ;-)

 

[Jacob]

Mmmm

I have been told keep your wood as long as possible for as long as possible, snipe can be a problem, and you can't get short pieces through a planer.

Jacobs way and the wrong way?

Pete

....keep your timber as long as possible for as long as possible....

Yes, until you come to using it then you cut to length (or combined as conveniently handleable lengths if very short)

Or to put it another way, if you need a 2 foot length, don't cut it off an 8 foot piece.

Or to put it another way -cut longest lengths (or biggest sections) first, from shortest available pieces

....
If your stock is not warped gang planing is more accurate and faster. ....

What is 'gang' planing?
It may warp during planing and/or ripping so it's still always best to reduce it to length and section first, with due allowance for planing.
It's also more convenient to handle, depending on your kit.

This topic crops up a lot mainly because many people start woodworking with PAR.
When they get to using sawn timber they think they need to produce their own PAR as stock. This is a basic mistake and is inefficient and wasteful.

 

[Dangermouse]

Well after all that hot air, back to the chair. I must admit its a bit like Marmite. Either you love it or hate it. I don't like it myself. Despite some saying how comfy it is, I cant see it. I know about Windsor chairs and have a couple 18th century ones myself in the kitchen. They are shaped to one's buttocks and back , but even then after a while I need a cushion. ( boney a r s e you see ). So if anyone tells me that this chair is comfortable, even for a short time, for someone who isn't well padded on the rear, then I can only disbelieve it. If it had upholstery , then I'm sure I would like it much more, as the design is very interesting and as been said the history of these "old modernist" pieces is wonderful. So in my opinion its a wonderful piece of art and design, , but it's a piece more to look at than sit in.

 

[bugbear]

What is 'gang' planing?

"gang" simply means working more than one piece at a time, in this case either end to end or side by side, before further ripping or cross cutting.

One example where this is particularly appropriate is hand planing mouldings, where the first and last 3-4" of the piece tend not to be perfect, so it's usual to work a long piece (stock quality and bench allowing), then cut the desired lengths from it.

Gang planing also ensures consistency in thickness to very good tolerance.

BugBear

 

[mn pete]

Here's where I am right now. The boards were broken down into managable pieces before jointing and planing, just not cut to the final part sizes yet. Hopefully I won't see any movement when it comes time to rip and crosscut. They've stayed pretty stable through each process so far though.

 

[Jacob]

What is 'gang' planing?

"gang" simply means working more than one piece at a time, in this case either end to end or side by side, before further ripping or cross cutting.
One example where this is particularly appropriate is hand planing mouldings, where the first and last 3-4" of the piece tend not to be perfect, so it's usual to work a long piece (stock quality and bench allowing), then cut the desired lengths from it.
Gang planing also ensures consistency in thickness to very good tolerance.BugBear

Really? Never heard of it.
It sounds like precisely the thing I'm advising against - with the odd exception such as small pieces inconvenient to handle, or your mouldings example but I've never heard of either of these referred to as 'gang' ditto.

 

[Jacob]

Here's where I am right now. The boards were broken down into managable pieces before jointing and planing, just not cut to the final part sizes yet. Hopefully I won't see any movement when it comes time to rip and crosscut. They've stayed pretty stable through each process so far though.

Good luck!
If the stuff was slowly dried you should be OK but if not you may have problems. Even if dry there can be internal stresses.

 

[marcros]

What is 'gang' planing?

"gang" simply means working more than one piece at a time, in this case either end to end or side by side, before further ripping or cross cutting.
One example where this is particularly appropriate is hand planing mouldings, where the first and last 3-4" of the piece tend not to be perfect, so it's usual to work a long piece (stock quality and bench allowing), then cut the desired lengths from it.
Gang planing also ensures consistency in thickness to very good tolerance.BugBear

Really? Never heard of it.
It sounds like precisely the thing I'm advising against - with the odd exception such as small pieces inconvenient to handle, or your mouldings example but I've never heard of either of these referred to as 'gang' ditto.

must be where the phrase "gang bang" comes from then...

 

[bugbear]

What is 'gang' planing?

"gang" simply means working more than one piece at a time, in this case either end to end or side by side, before further ripping or cross cutting.
One example where this is particularly appropriate is hand planing mouldings, where the first and last 3-4" of the piece tend not to be perfect, so it's usual to work a long piece (stock quality and bench allowing), then cut the desired lengths from it.
Gang planing also ensures consistency in thickness to very good tolerance.BugBear

Really? Never heard of it.
It sounds like precisely the thing I'm advising against - with the odd exception such as small pieces inconvenient to handle, or your mouldings example but I've never heard of either of these referred to as 'gang' ditto.

It's just a problem at the other end of the scale from the cup/warp problem that is dominant on large pieces.

As pieces get small (e.g. in Edwardian lounge pieces), planing gets fiddly, and workholding issues start to intrude.

For extremely small pieces it's actually more practical to work them nearly to completion before ripping them from the "Mother" piece.

Fortunately, there's a wide range between the two extremes where neither issue causes any practical difficulties.

BugBear

 

[mn pete]

Hey guys, I started a WIP thread over on the Projects board to post all my updates. Hopefully the project will keep clicking along at a more steady pace now!

rietveld-s-red-blue-chairs-wip-t67258.html

 

[mn pete]

Hey guys,

For the few of you that mentioned having built this chair before (Jacob, Greedo, eribaMooters)...did you paint each of the parts before joining all the parts?

I'm thinking of taping off all of the joinery points and painting all the parts before construction, but that sure seems like a lot of extra work. It's worth doing if it produces the best results...just want to see what you guys did with your builds.

Here's the latest (also posted over in the WIP thread.)

http://secondwindworkshop.blogspot.com/ ... death.html

 

[Jacob]

Left mine as natural wood - basically a dark brown sapele/mahogany. So did Rietveld originally, it was Mondrian who suggested the paint scheme.
I'd paint after the construction - you will need clamps etc. and won't be able to avoid marking the paint.

 

[mn pete]

Thanks Jacob! The more I thought about it, the more I'm leaning toward painting after assembly.