Sourdough starter

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Steve Maskery

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I know that several people here make their own bread. I have done so for nearly 40 years.

I've always used fresh yeast (yes I know, Paul H reckons dried is better, but I like how fresh works), but I'd really like to try old-fashioned sourdough. I've tried to make a starter according to
Debra Wink's pineapple juice method.

Six days later I have a rather ugly mix of yellowish sludge which shows no sign of bubbling.

Has anyone here done sourdough and have you any tips for getting started, literally?
 
Yes, follow the recipe in Crust by Richard Bertinet. page 47 onwards. If you PM me I will send a summary of the method. It takes a good week to get a really good usable ferment. He does it with local organic honey (which I find better than the airborne yeast methods).

If you like good bread I recommend this author.

You need to be very careful not to kill your yeast or flavour so you must make sure that everything is not contaminated with stuff like antibacterial sprays and detergents.

Stage 1 to start you off requires: 50g spelt, 150g strong white, 20 g organic honey, 150g warm filtered water.
Mix everything well. Cover bowl with plastic freezer bag or similar secured with runner band.
Leave somewhere warm (30 c) for 36-48 hours until dough smells alcoholic and is loose.
Then you get to stage 2 which is feeding.

I guarantee this method works really well.

Adrian
 
Thank you Adrian.
I don't have any spelt (I did buy a bag once but didn't like the bread it produced)
30C? I have trouble keeping this place at 20C!

Thanks for the info though, I might give the honey a go. Another method I've seen uses sultanas, but I tried that and had similarly disappointing results :(

Yes please to the summary.
 
I have used the river cottage method of whisking some water and stoneground wholewheat flour. It certainly works, is easy, but can be temperamental.
Failing that, I have some dried starter donated by another forumite that works well (and started life in New York) if you would like some?

Adam
 
I did a bread making course a couple of years ago and since then I have made sourdough on a regular basis.
During the course we were given a small quantity of starter to take home - which I have used and refreshed ever since.

Here is the recipe to create a sourdough starter.

Day 1
Mix 30g whole rye flour and 30g water (at about 20 deg c) and leave at room temperature for 24 hours.
Day 2
Mix in another 30g of rye flour and 30g of water and leave for a further 24 hours.
Days 3,4 & 5
Repeat as for day 2.
Day 6
Mix in 150g white flour and 225g water
Day 7
Your starter should now be active and ready to use.
 
1. Take 100g strong flour and 100g tepid (preferably filtered)
water and mix together in a clean glass jar. measure into a
glass jar (see through is best so you can see what’s going on).
2. Add 6-8 raisins to kick start the the starter – you need to
remove these once your starter is alive and bubbling.
3. Cover your jar with something breathable and leave for 24
hours at room temperature. At the end of the first 24 hours,
and whether or not the starter has started to bubble, add
another 100g flour and 100g water and stir vigorously to
combine.
4. Leave for a further 24-72 hours, or until you notice plenty
of bubbles forming through the mixture, and a definite increase in volume. At this point, you will
then need to discard three quarters of your starter, and refresh with another 100g flour, and 100g
water.
5. At this point, you can leave the starter at room temperature, but you must discard half and refresh
as above, every day. I find it easier to keep it in the fridge where it will happily thrive as long as
you feed it every 1-2 weeks. (I've left mine for 3 weeks on occasions, and it's always sprung back
to life when I've discarded and refreshed again).
6. When you want to use your starter to make bread, either discard and refresh 12 hours prior to
using, or if kept in the fridge, take it out and let it slowly come to room temperature before
discarding and refreshing. Once refreshed and bubbly, I take 85g of starter and mix with 125g flour
and 125g water, in a clean container (this mix is called a “levain”); I usually do this the night before
I want to bake with it. If left for 12-16 hours, the levain will rise and look bubbly and aerated – this
is perfect for making good bread.

How to make a classic sourdough loaf
Ingredients
375g strong white bread flour
250g sourdough levain (made at least 12 hours ahead)
7g fine sea salt
130 – 175mls tepid water
Olive oil, for kneading
Preparation method
Combine the flour, starter and salt in a large mixing bowl. Add the water, a little at a time, and mix
with your hands to make a soft dough – you may not need all of the water.
Coat a work surface with olive oil, then get kneading the dough for 10-15 minutes, or until the
dough becomes smooth and elastic
Tip the dough into a lightly oiled bowl and cover with cling film. Leave to rise in a warm place for
six hours, or until at least doubled in size.
Knock back the dough gently, and roll into a ball and dust with flour. Leave to rest for 20 minutes
before kneading again gently, and smoothing the dough on your work surface until you create
surface tension on the dough. Place seam side up into a well floured proving basket, and place in
the fridge overnight to prove slowly.
The next morning, get the dough out the fridge and allow to come to room temperature. Put a tray
half filled with water on the bottom oven shelf and preheat the oven to 220C/425F/Gas 7.
Gently tip the risen dough onto a lined baking tray. Bake the loaf for 30 minutes at this heat, then
reduce the heat to 200C/400F/Gas 6 and bake for a further 15-20 minutes. Cool on a cooling rack.
 
Steve Maskery":13aj51q7 said:
30C? I have trouble keeping this place at 20C!

I've found that the oven lamp is often enough to keep the temperature around 30C, so long as you don't keep opening and closing the door all the time.


galleywood":13aj51q7 said:
Here is the recipe to create a sourdough starter.

No yeast?
 
Steve,
I have an on-going starter (2 years +) I originally made from a dry starter given to me by Dave 123 which originated in the Yukon! As with all starters, they will take on the flavour / characteristics of the flour & water you feed them with so mine has evolved with wholemeal flour from http://www.hindleys-bakery.co.uk
I'd be happy to send you either some wet starter or if you're happy to wait a day or so I can dry some. Let me know and PM me your address if you want some.
I did the course with Duncan Hindley some years ago and can literally pop in or email him for advice but he was happy to let some "trade secrets" slip.
As sourdough can be really unpredictable in terms of yeast strength, fermentation times etc. it can be commercially difficult to time the production process and so many non-specialist bakers cheat a little by using fresh yeast as well! I have heard this from other sources as well.
So I tend to hedge my bets and use the sponge method whereby I ensure the sourdough element is very active (24 hr) fermentation and then add the normal ingredients with fresh yeast and bake from there. The process is far more manageable in terms of time but I accept not purist.
hope this helps.
Glynne
 
Mseries, thank you. The sultana method you describe is pretty much identical to what I have tried, unsuccessfully, in the past.
I'm thinking that perhaps the fundamental problem is that my house is not cosy enough. I don't have an airing cupboard as such, but the closet that houses the boiler must be the warmest place in the house, I think I'll start again and keep it in there.

Glynne, yes please. I've already taken up Adrian on his offer, but the more the merrier. Yes please.

Jake, the yeast is on the skins of the dried grapes. At least, that is the theory...
 
We just did ours in the kitchen. It was summer so the CH wasn't on but the boiler is in the kitchen. I think the ambitent temperature and the humdity was good enough. Keep trying.
 
The recipe I read had fresh grapes, which makes sense for the yeast in the bloom (more so I'd have thought than raisins which have been dried and coated in oil). I did my own but was never happy, so I bought a genuine San Fransisco sourdough starter (which is a recognised strain of yeast). I had it for a couple of months before it inexplicably soured - to be honest I didn't see the slightest difference in taste between them and ordinary bread. They were more dense - which to me is a downside. I couldn't be bothered with it. (I do keep a Herman, though.)
 
Hi Adam,
Yes I think it's the same starter but they evolve with what you feed them with.
I tend to just add some starter to my normal bread mix (white, malted & wholemeal) to give a little more flavour but I do occasionally go for a full sourdough bread (cheats version) as this makes a brilliant toast for savoury meals - pate, bacon & eggs etc.
I have gone hard core by not adding any fresh yeast but the whole process is very unpredictable in terms of time.
Not sure if anyone watched last nights Victorian Bakers but I really enjoyed the recreation (for one) as they seemed to be genuine bakers going back to absolute basics.
 
Glynne":og8tswvv said:
Not sure if anyone watched last nights Victorian Bakers but I really enjoyed the recreation (for one) as they seemed to be genuine bakers going back to absolute basics.

Yes - the only thing that disappointed me is that they didn't do it for (at least) a month,
so they could hone their skills - so it was a program about modern people trying
old skills, not actually developing old skills.

Budgets constraints, I suppose.

BugBear
 
Steve Maskery":3731yqzy said:
Jake, the yeast is on the skins of the dried grapes. At least, that is the theory...

Unless I missed it, Galleywood's recipe didn't have any dried grapes either! Just rye flour and water.

(I'm not going to try it with or without, 'cause I was diagnosed coeliac recently so all my breadmaking has to be done with weird deglutenised flours that don't behave the same, but I've never seen a supposedly-rising bread recipe that just had flour and water before...)
 
loaf.jpg
I have made several successful starters in the past, using just flour and water. I have also thrown quite a few away. In my opinion it's a bit hit and miss. If I get a good one I tend to split it in two.

This thread has reminded me that I have three jars in the fridge right now that are probably either dead or dying. I'll attend to them ASAP.
 

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