Shutting the door once the horse has bolted... security tips

[Newbie_Neil]

So sorry to hear your sad news.

 

[Mark A]

You have my sympathy

My shed was broken into a few years ago and the sprouts took off with my plunge saw rails. Lucky they were all that was stolen.

I immediately set to work securing everything of value - the larger tools with thick chains, and my metal tool cabinets with multiple locks.

Since then we've moved into a rental house with a garage. As an extra precaution I park my van tight up the door at night; however I don't know if doing so could be actually be counterproductive... am I not suggesting to a burglar that the contents of the garage are in some way special?

In any case, there should be a change to the law regarding burglary as this kid-gloves approach to dealing with the filth of society is no real deterrent. But then apart from those affected, no-else seems to really care.

 

[Wouldchuk]

One of the challenges is the balance between security and straighforward usability! Yes, you want security - but you have to not be disuaded from using it. And in some ways, the damage they've done breaking in this time was minimal - we've got to refix the door to the blockwork (with some bigger fixings) - but actually, sometimes the cost of damage and repaids can be as much as the cost of tool.

I think the real challenge we've got is how to deal with the the periods when we are away from the property - if we're not there, and they gain access (not hard on a 4 acre rural plot at the edge of the village) then they've basically got all the time and privacy they need. So, we're reviewing all the points of access and considering how we stop them from driving in, make the b*ggers walk and carry! And then it's as much as we can do to reinforce doors. An alarm is going in - if its loud enough then it will at least disuade them from thinking theyve got time and hopefully they grab what they can and go next time. Need to do some research on that.

Also heard that they did the business near us too - all their IT kit and barns broken into. Similarly, I agree with the legal points of responisbility made earlier - although it's easy to see where frustration builds; I don't like to knock the police, I appreciate that they're under-resourced and have to prioritise, but to have two £5k plus burglaries next door to each other, reported over a week ago and still not to have sent anyone round is a bit of a poor show and does nothing to reassure or disuade people from taking more drastic measures.

In good news, Festool have a theft protection policy on brand-new registered tools - £100 replacement fee. This is an option if the insurance doesn't cover; great service from them when I called yesterday so very impressed by that.

 

[Silas Gull]

.243, TimberWolf, herd of pigs.

Job done.

 

[Baldhead]

It's strange that a Police Officer can give a warning that a dog will be 'sent in' to flush out some lowlife, yet an owner of a premise can't allow a dog to roam his locked workshop, even if he puts up signs warning warning there's a guard dog, I stand by my earlier comment, if the CPS think that's suffient to prosecute, then I would be prosecuted.

Baldhead

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Would totally agree on your view regards the no show on the police - Lobby your MP, outlining the unacceptable response (there are no cops to respond unless actually in progress offences are being committed) put pressure on the government to invest in policing and security. As it is, the police are too worried about upsetting minority groups rather than deal robustly with offenders, thus much of their remain staff are directed in that direction. Please bear in mind, a large part of your council tax bill is paid to the police. Take a look at your council tax bill, if not already done so, you may be surprised as to the proportion on the amount paid going to the police. So you deserve at least some response, do you think?

Clearly this is not solely a police problem, they have had their budgets slashed over the past few years. Having had to sell of much of their real estate to make ends meet. It has now come to reducing officer numbers to make the necessary savings. Hence no response to you as a victim of crime. As a result, the police are only be able to offer a "fire brigade service" We all have the power of the vote, make use of it because it is quite clear successive governments are slashing budgets on policing and security, both home and abroad.

Good luck

David

 

[Bluekingfisher]

It's strange that a Police Officer can give a warning that a dog will be 'sent in' to flush out some lowlife, yet an owner of a premise can't allow a dog to roam his locked workshop, even if he puts up signs warning warning there's a guard dog, I stand by my earlier comment, if the CPS think that's suffient to prosecute, then I would be prosecuted.

Baldhead

Look at the legislation on the use and control of "guard dogs"

They have to be trained, controlled and regulated.

That is the reason.

Ignorance is no excuse.

Good luck

David

 

[n0legs]

Look at the legislation on the use and control of "guard dogs"

They have to be trained, controlled and regulated.

A pet dog is free to roam the garden of the dwelling it lives at.
Signs need to be posted to this effect to inform visitors of such.

 

[jimmy rivers]

Our Alarm takes a PAYG sim and will call/ text a user designated number if activated / faults. +1 for SMARTWATER.

A concern of ours is if we leave late a night / during poor light in winter, and we're mugged for the lot whilst locking up!

Cheers Jim

 

[deema]

Hate to say it, but give it a couple of months and they will be back to grab all the new stuff you have just bought.

I think David's advise in the roller shutter is the best way forward. It may also sound extreme, but also think about a set of wooden leaf doors in front of the roller shutter door, good solid oak or similar. It's all about layers of defence. If they smashed the roller shutter door off, creating noise is not an issue for them, by the time the police have responded to an alarm call, they will be well gone. A cap / hoody defeats any security camer, and electric fences are unfortunately illegal.

 

[DiscoStu]

I'm not sure if the cost of these things, but you can get something called a smoke cloak. Essentially it works with an alarm and when the alarm goes off it fills your workshop with incredibly dense smoke so that you can't see you hand in front of your face. With a remote location it would prevent anyone from seeing anything or even being able to move around the building until well after the police had time to arrive.

The smoke is inert so does no damage. However it might be more costly than it's worth. I know an IT company has it and it is brilliant.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Look at the legislation on the use and control of "guard dogs"

They have to be trained, controlled and regulated.

A pet dog is free to roam the garden of the dwelling it lives at.
Signs need to be posted to this effect to inform visitors of such.

You would have a job convincing a court of law that a dog left half starved and abandoned over night in a contained space several miles from the owners home address could be considered a pet.

Hence the reason for the lgislation (hammer)

You will find many case laws examples of prosecutions of the "victim" in such instances such you wish to delve or consider my point inaccurate.

You could argue the case if that same dog was housed in a garage or worshop within the curtilage of the victims home address. However, as soon as the term, guard dog is mentioned you are on a sticky wicket. Even a half smart barrister would rip the defence to pieces.

Good luck

David

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Further to my last -

Control of guard dogs.

(1)A person shall not use or permit the use of a guard dog at any premises unless a person (“the handler”) who is capable of controlling the dog is present on the premises and the dog is under the control of the handler at all times while it is being so used except while it is secured so that it is not at liberty to go freely about the premises.

(2)The handler of a guard dog shall keep the dog under his control at all times while it is being used as a guard dog at any premises except—

(a)while another handler has control over the dog; or

(b)while the dog is secured so that it is not at liberty to go freely about the premises.

(3)A person shall not use or permit the use of a guard dog at any premises unless a notice containing a warning that a guard dog is present is clearly exhibited at each entrance to the premises.

Restriction on keeping guard dogs without a licence.

(1)A person shall not keep a dog at guard dog kennels unless he holds a licence under section 3 of this Act in respect of the kennels.

(2)A person shall not use or permit the use at any premises of a guard dog if he knows or has reasonable cause to suspect that the dog (when not being used as a guard dog) is normally kept at guard dog kennels in breach of subsection (1) of this section.

You can do all that is reasonable to protect your property and posessions. If you stray from parameters of the law of the land you will have to explain your actions. I'm not trying to beat anyone up over this, just trying to point out what may be considered appropriate by some is in fact not so.

Be careful.

Good luck

David

 

[Mark A]

As much as we would all like to dig spike pits and place claymore mines around our workshops, it's illegal to intentionally harm Mr. Burglar. Ridiculous, but that's the law.

You've mentioned you'll replace the roller door, and that the side entrance is secure, but what's the roof made from? If the ba5tards can't get in though the doors they may try coming in through the top. About 15 years ago burglars broke into our warehouse through the roller shutter by ramming it with a stolen car, and after it was replaced we began parking our 18t wagon across the entrance. A few months later the burglars broke in again, this time through the fibreglass roof, and ransacked the pallets of personal effects in storage.

If you like the idea of guard animals I've heard geese can be effective. They're vicious, make a hell of a racket when disturbed and live outside. If your workshop is in a rural location then I can't imagine a reason why keeping some wouldn't be permitted.

 

[n0legs]

You would have a job convincing a court of law that a dog left half starved and abandoned over night in a contained space several miles from the owners home address could be considered a pet.

Hence the reason for the lgislation (hammer)

You will find many case laws examples of prosecutions of the "victim" in such instances such you wish to delve or consider my point inaccurate.

You could argue the case if that same dog was housed in a garage or worshop within the curtilage of the victims home address. However, as soon as the term, guard dog is mentioned you are on a sticky wicket. Even a half smart barrister would rip the defence to pieces.

Good luck

David

Hey David thanks for pointing the law out to me.
If you re-read my post though I said and used the terms 'free to roam' and 'the garden of dwelling it lives at'.
I say potato you say curtilage.

 

[Silas Gull]

I used to work for a guy whose motto was "if you catch 'em, kill em."
And that's what we used to do.
I have to admit, the thrill saws all in the catching. The killing just left you feeling dead on the inside.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

You would have a job convincing a court of law that a dog left half starved and abandoned over night in a contained space several miles from the owners home address could be considered a pet.

Hence the reason for the lgislation (hammer)

You will find many case laws examples of prosecutions of the "victim" in such instances such you wish to delve or consider my point inaccurate.

You could argue the case if that same dog was housed in a garage or worshop within the curtilage of the victims home address. However, as soon as the term, guard dog is mentioned you are on a sticky wicket. Even a half smart barrister would rip the defence to pieces.

Good luck

David

Hey David thanks for pointing the law out to me.
If you re-read my post though I said and used the terms 'free to roam' and 'the garden of dwelling it lives at'.
I say potato you say curtilage.

You threw me I have to admit, although the context of the discussion was on the legalities of guard dogs and confined spaces, not of pets in back gardens. Two entirely different situations. There is no legal requirement to identify a dog as being free in a back garden. Unless of course the dog is there as a deterrent or for dedicated protection. It will then fall under the legislation of "guard dog"

Potato & curtilage is right!

Good luck

David

 

[Richard S]

You would have a job convincing a court of law that a dog left half starved and abandoned over night in a contained space several miles from the owners home address could be considered a pet.

Hence the reason for the lgislation (hammer)

You will find many case laws examples of prosecutions of the "victim" in such instances such you wish to delve or consider my point inaccurate.

You could argue the case if that same dog was housed in a garage or worshop within the curtilage of the victims home address. However, as soon as the term, guard dog is mentioned you are on a sticky wicket. Even a half smart barrister would rip the defence to pieces.

Good luck

David

Hey David thanks for pointing the law out to me.
If you re-read my post though I said and used the terms 'free to roam' and 'the garden of dwelling it lives at'.
I say potato you say curtilage.

Then what is the point of your post, the discussion centres around protecting a remote workshop, if I where you I would listen to what David has to say rather than trying to trying to be clever, the guy is a seriously experienced professional in this field and is offering the benefit of his expert knowledge for the benefit of you all, a little respect would not be out of place.

Maybe you know better but I know who I would rather rely on, I can just see it now.....

"Well your Honour I'm really sorry Jon-Joe traveller has bean eaten by my guar...... Sorry pet timberwolf but Mr Nolegs said it would be ok...... What do you mean "take him down!!"

Meanwhile in Cwbran, tucked up snug in their own bed.......

 

[Jimmyarm]

I'm not sure if the cost of these things, but you can get something called a smoke cloak. Essentially it works with an alarm and when the alarm goes off it fills your workshop with incredibly dense smoke so that you can't see you hand in front of your face. With a remote location it would prevent anyone from seeing anything or even being able to move around the building until well after the police had time to arrive.

The smoke is inert so does no damage. However it might be more costly than it's worth. I know an IT company has it and it is brilliant.

When I used to work as a commercial Underwriter, we had a KTM motorbike dealer on the books that was based out on an industrial estate in the sticks. After I think four or five break in's over 18 months a Smoke Cloak was the thing that finally prevented further losses.

They had physical security similar to fort knox but the people breaking in would just go through the walls with a JCB. The alarm was monitored and had Police response but they never arrived in time, the smoke stopped them seeing anything in the shop and put them off finally From memory the cloak is combined with some very high power lighting and extremely loud sirens so not only is visibility reduced to a few inches in front of your face, it is very uncomfortable to be in the building.

Perhaps a bit OTT for a workshop and probably cost prohibitive unfortunately

 

[blackrodd]

You would have a job convincing a court of law that a dog left half starved and abandoned over night in a contained space several miles from the owners home address could be considered a pet.

Hence the reason for the lgislation (hammer)

You will find many case laws examples of prosecutions of the "victim" in such instances such you wish to delve or consider my point inaccurate.

You could argue the case if that same dog was housed in a garage or worshop within the curtilage of the victims home address. However, as soon as the term, guard dog is mentioned you are on a sticky wicket. Even a half smart barrister would rip the defence to pieces.

Good luck

David

Hey David thanks for pointing the law out to me.
If you re-read my post though I said and used the terms 'free to roam' and 'the garden of dwelling it lives at'.
I say potato you say curtilage.

Then what is the point of your post, the discussion centres around protecting a remote workshop, if I where you I would listen to what David has to say rather than trying to trying to be clever, the guy is a seriously experienced professional in this field and is offering the benefit of his expert knowledge for the benefit of you all, a little respect would not be out of place.

Maybe you know better but I know who I would rather rely on, I can just see it now.....

"Well your Honour I'm really sorry Jon-Joe traveller has bean eaten by my guar...... Sorry pet timberwolf but Mr Nolegs said it would be ok...... What do you mean "take him down!!"

Meanwhile in Cwbran, tucked up snug in their own bed.......

I think this is a shoot the messenger jobby.
The legal standpoint, from Bluekingfisher is rather annoying and feeble in the reading, but more than likely correct.
Being reminded of our powerless situation, and it can appear we had better ask Mr burglar if he is staying for tea,
does not sit well with most of us, but that is what you get for having the lowest taxes for years and the PC mumbo jumbo that some people revel in.
It's exasperating to hear that mr burglar can sue the house owners for the broken ankle he sustained by tripping up on the kids toys in the house he was "screwing", I believe is the term.
The answer must be to make mr burglar work hard (for a change, in most cases) to get in you're property and lobby
The pants off your're mp, or form a pressure group!
Regards Rodders