sharpening technique

[Racers]

Pot kettle

Pete

 

[JimF.]

Gosh. It is all getting terribly serious isn't it? Toys thrown out of prams, the distant sound of slamming doors!

What is the point of your post in this sharpening thread?

Just as much point as yours...

I think we should stick to being nice, if some one gets offended then we need to look at what we have said.
Pete

Getting "offended" over a bit of banter strikes me as peculiarly obnoxious and controlling behaviour. Probably best not to encourage or pander to it. IMHO

 

[Racers]

Its not banter its some one forcing his opinion on every thread and using language such as "training wheels"

Pete

 

[Karl]

Haven't visited this forum in quite a while. Sad to see this rubbish is still going on. Suppose it'll never change.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

... I'll still watch the car crash for the good stuff ... Carl

Most threads on this subject seems to end in a car crash. That result is almost always the case, and not limited to this forum: they are usually a car crash in every forum, and I've been watching essentially the same thing happen in sharpening threads for about fifteen years or so. I'm not sure why, but I rarely tire of the, er, entertainment.

Guide or no guide? They're unnecessary for many people, and it's rare, but not unheard of, for me to see one used in a professional workshop. Others swear by their guides, and can't live without them, and the majority of guide users seem to be in the amateur fold in my experience, although others may have a different experience.

The only thing that really matters I suppose is that your tools are sharp when you need them to be so, and if they're blunt, then an effective and efficient means of resharpening is needed, especially if your work is in a business environment, with speed probably being less important if woodworking is essentially a hobby.

In the end sharp is sharp, however you get there, and sometimes getting there needs to be swift too, but not always, which depends on the needs of the woodworker. Slainte.

 

[Racers]

That's what I have said all along, do what ever way you feel works.

Pete

 

[David C]

Still waiting to hear information about "new" sharpening......................

I await accurate information instead of prejudiced opinion.

Apologies for the repetition of ordure. The posting of a more appropriate word would undoubtedly be censured. Ordure seems quite aposite......

David

 

[G S Haydon]

Clearly everyone has a system that works for them and I'm delighted about that. One thing that does get mentioned is that one convex bevel on a hollow oil stone was the norm. I think this did happen but I always find primary, secondary and flat stones in the old books. The oldest text that I have found so far which is Moxon suggests I think a hollow grind like Frank Klaus (although I stand to be corrected).

Here's one for you Jacob, a convex bevel? http://youtu.be/Jo0IXn0pSic?t=38s

 

[Jacob]

Clearly everyone has a system that works for them and I'm delighted about that. One thing that does get mentioned is that one convex bevel on a hollow oil stone was the norm. I think this did happen but I always find primary, secondary and flat stones in the old books. The oldest text that I have found so far which is Moxon suggests I think a hollow grind like Frank Klaus (although I stand to be corrected).

Convex bevel is the norm as it is the almost inevitable outcome of freehand honing - a flat bevel is more difficult to do and is pointless in any case. The only thing to avoid is raising the angle by rounding over too far. The books don't mention this particularly because it's what everybody used to do naturally - literally "unremarkable".
There's a lot of stuff which never gets mentioned - take that very common axe trick which came up in another thread. BB seemed to think that because he'd never read about it it must be new to the planet! made-use-of-a-technique-from-jacob-t74600.html
Another item which seemed to surprise was this very long draw bore pin
post789810.html?hilit=drawbore#p789810
They may not appear in written records but I know for a fact that they were utterly commonplace in joinery shops, as essential for staircase construction.

Here's one for you Jacob, a convex bevel? http://youtu.be/Jo0IXn0pSic?t=38s

I do the same for small chisels - pulling is easier than pushing, but bigger ones I push forwards. It works for Deneb here, it works for mortice chisels (my initial "inspiration") it works for all blades (as far as I can see). I really don't know what all the fuss is about.

 

[Jacob]

Still waiting to hear information about "new" sharpening......................

I await accurate information instead of prejudiced opinion.

Apologies for the repetition of ordure. The posting of a more appropriate word would undoubtedly be censured. Ordure seems quite aposite......

David

2 Ps in "apposite" Dave.

 

[David C]

Discussion requires to and fro dialogue such as a response to a question.

Your pejorative use of the term "New sharpening" is certainly rubbish.

David

 

[Jacob]

I don't have to discuss anything with people who are abusive, dismissive and sarcastic.

 

[thick_mike]

This thread's been a slow burner hasn't it?

I thought peace had broken out when nothing happened for a few days...then whoosh!...back to normal.

 

[jamesicus]

Where I worked in the late 1940s apprentices were taught how to sharpen their edged tools (chisels and plane irons) under the tutelage of the older craftsmen and thereafter were supposed to properly maintain them. A communal foot pedal operated water trough grindstone was used for major bevel profiling. The simple high carbon steel used in woodworking cutting tools in those days precluded using power driven carborundum wheels which could destroy the steel hardness due to the friction heat generated. Major bevel profiling was slow, but preserving the integrity of the steel was paramount.

Foot treadle operated water trough grindstone
(Photos used by permission of eBay member kernowlincoln: © owner)

Oil stones -- with one side "medium" and the other side "fine" -- were used for sharpening. The medium side of the stone was used to maintain the (approx.) 25° primary bevel and the fine side to produce the (approx.) 35° secondary bevel cutting edge. All sharpening was free-hand. Light machine oil was used to lubricate the stone -- with frequent wiping off and re-applications during sharpening. The burr or "wire edge" formed during sharpening was removed by resting the back of the chisel/plane iron flat on the oil stone and rubbing a few times to turn the burr back -- this procedure was repeated until the burr was satisfactorily removed and the edge felt suitably sharp to the touch. The final step was to strop the edge on leather. The oil stone was wiped clean and stored dry after each use.

The test of sharpness adequacy was if the edge would cut tough oak easily and cleanly. The whole procedure was quick and simple. This is the way I still sharpen and maintain my edged tools.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Bevels the wrong way around?

 

[jamesicus]

Bevels the wrong way around?

Thanks.

 

[Corneel]

Thanks James. That's much according to all the textbooks. These grindstones were in use for eons.

My little theory, the grindstone would have been used only once a week or so, not on a daily basis. And most workmen would try to keep the bevel straight but ended up with a bit of convexity anyway.

I wonder, would you remove the 35 degree sec. bevel on each sharpening again? Start over fresh so to say?

Just as a sidenote from a modern woodworker (me). You don't need to be afraid for a high speed grinder. With reasonable precautions, very coarse grit stone, keep the surface fresh, light pressure, quench often, there is no need to worry about overheating high carbon steel. I do it all the time.

 

[Corneel]

Discussion requires to and fro dialogue such as a response to a question.

David

You're still circumnavigating my question about how you sharpen a gouge, too.

 

[David C]

The answer is too obvious, and not relevant to the majority of cabinetmaking sharpening, (chisels and plane blades).

I am not a carver, and have very occasionally used in cannel gouges.

These were sharpened with a flat stone and some slipstones. How else?

David

 

[Jacob]

Jamesicus much the same as I was taught except the grindstones were powered. Excessive use of the grindstone was regarded as cheating and was reserved for major remedial work only. Jigs were for amateurs but not for "beginners" as anybody training would want to do it properly. They weren't even discussed - they were seen as just gadgets available for DIYers.
Hollow stones, convex bevels weren't an issue. Rounded over bevels were.

Simple stuff really, and highly effective. Took me some years to get back to basics!