SammyQ
Established Member
That's being highly unfair to fridges!They deliver a useful function...unlike..... (hammer)
Sam
Sam
sharpening technique
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RossJarvis
Established Member
For about 15quid, you can get a double sided Stanley stone with oil and a honing guide. I found this a good place to start;
http://www.screwfix.com/p/stanley-chise ... tAodLRQAiw
You can practice sharpening free-hand and/or use the guide. This can help you see if you are any good free-hand and compare to see what a sharp tool is like. I'd suggest doing this before spending any money on books, Japanese stones etc. Once you start you can literally get obsessed and spend all your Worldly goods and savings and end up battling people with badly or well honed edges to death. As a wise person mentioned earlier; "WON"T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!"
http://www.screwfix.com/p/stanley-chise ... tAodLRQAiw
You can practice sharpening free-hand and/or use the guide. This can help you see if you are any good free-hand and compare to see what a sharp tool is like. I'd suggest doing this before spending any money on books, Japanese stones etc. Once you start you can literally get obsessed and spend all your Worldly goods and savings and end up battling people with badly or well honed edges to death. As a wise person mentioned earlier; "WON"T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!"
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Agree. Keep it simple and get a viable system up and running before venturing too far.
Personally I'd bin the guide straight away as an unnecessary level of complication for a beginner.
Personally I'd bin the guide straight away as an unnecessary level of complication for a beginner.
woodbrains
Established Member
Hello,
My advice is to get the Stanley stone kit and NEVER get one of those excellent books. Then you will be in a state of blissful ignorance as to what sharp truly is, but you will not have spent any money and not know any better, thinking you got a good deal. In fact spend no money, use a concrete paving slab in the street and achieve similar results to the Stanley stone anyhow. It is a no brainier! :twisted:
Sorry children!
Mike.
My advice is to get the Stanley stone kit and NEVER get one of those excellent books. Then you will be in a state of blissful ignorance as to what sharp truly is, but you will not have spent any money and not know any better, thinking you got a good deal. In fact spend no money, use a concrete paving slab in the street and achieve similar results to the Stanley stone anyhow. It is a no brainier! :twisted:
Sorry children!
Mike.
I've never bought a book on sharpening in my entire life Woodbrains. Why on earth would I? Sharpening a Chisel, Plane blade, Knife etc is a very simple process. If we are simply concerned with sharpening common woodworking tools (and not a discourse on metallurgy) why do you need a whole book on the subject? The answer is that you don't.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Nor me. I buy a lot of books but sharpening doesn't feature! Who needs them?*
I use pencils but haven't bought a book on how to sharpen them - do you think I should?
*well Woodbrains obviously! :lol:
I use pencils but haven't bought a book on how to sharpen them - do you think I should?
*well Woodbrains obviously! :lol:
MMUK
Established Member
Funny you seem to be recommending the Stanley kit, that's what I have and the stone is rubbish!. That's also the honing guide I've never used which ended up in the bin last night.....
If you don't get a book on sharpening pencils then you may never experience the transcendent joy of a truly sharp writing instrument. You may as well just use a charred stick.
A lot of sharpening hokum just discourages people from getting started as it makes it all seem too difficult. I know I was almost put off by the thought of having to spend upwards of £150 just to start being able to get a plane blade and some chisels to a state where I might be able to do some simple woodwork. Then there was the flatness issue, lapping plates, don't get me started! That's why my first plane was an electric one with disposable blades.
An oilstone is perfectly adequate to get started on. It worked perfectly well for my great grandfather, whose furniture still survives today, and there is no reason it cannot work for us now. You can refine and move ever finer with strops, waterstones, diamonds etc. But unless you know why from your own practical experience and feeling there is no need to get hung up on it.
A lot of sharpening hokum just discourages people from getting started as it makes it all seem too difficult. I know I was almost put off by the thought of having to spend upwards of £150 just to start being able to get a plane blade and some chisels to a state where I might be able to do some simple woodwork. Then there was the flatness issue, lapping plates, don't get me started! That's why my first plane was an electric one with disposable blades.
An oilstone is perfectly adequate to get started on. It worked perfectly well for my great grandfather, whose furniture still survives today, and there is no reason it cannot work for us now. You can refine and move ever finer with strops, waterstones, diamonds etc. But unless you know why from your own practical experience and feeling there is no need to get hung up on it.
MMUK
Established Member
I quite agree Julian. However, I don't personally consider the Stanley oilstone to be of sufficient quality for a decent edge. I've used mine once to sharpen 5 chisels and it has a bigger dipper in it than Alton Towers! (maybe a slight exaggeration but you get my drift). The stone is just too soft and crumbly.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
You are probably right. Perhaps go mad and spend some dosh for once, on one of these instead. Expensive, but wil last a lifetime.MMUK":33czzyj8 said:
Lots of them about 2nd hand for peanuts, often with nice wooden box. £10 should do it, don't pay more - old yer orses!
MMUK
Established Member
Jacob":3gd5ss4h said:
Spooky! :shock:
I've just looked at that exact same stone on MTS with a view to ordering (once I can get past the Makita pages) :lol:
David C
In Memorium
I am very fond of the Eclipse type guides.
They are an almost perfect aid. Cheap, reliable, long lasting and effective. Guides are excellent for repeatability and efficiency.
To suggest that they add "an unnecessary level of complication" is absurd and without rational basis. It takes but a few seconds to mount a chisel or plane blade, and the honing angle will be certain rather than approximate.
The usual howls of derision from the freehand mob, will be sure to follow?
David Charlesworth
They are an almost perfect aid. Cheap, reliable, long lasting and effective. Guides are excellent for repeatability and efficiency.
To suggest that they add "an unnecessary level of complication" is absurd and without rational basis. It takes but a few seconds to mount a chisel or plane blade, and the honing angle will be certain rather than approximate.
The usual howls of derision from the freehand mob, will be sure to follow?
David Charlesworth
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Hmm, sounds like a whimper of derision. :roll:
I think your suggestion is absurd and without rational basis!
I think your suggestion is absurd and without rational basis!
MMUK
Established Member
Popcorn anyone?
bugbear
Established Member
Jacob":e9vtmzph said:
Agreed. The Stanley guide is truly terrible, I'd recommend the Eclipse #36 or a copy thereof.
BugBear
Corneel
Established Member
That's how I thought back when I used an Eclipse: It costs just a few seconds. And how accurate it is.
But it is truly liberating to be able to just turn around from your work, drop the chisel on the coarse stone, race it up and down to raise a wireedge. Then flip it over to the polishing stone and a few swipes on bevel and back and you're back in business.
I don't exactly remember how much time it costs to set the chisel in the guide and adjust it. Somewhere around 30 seconds I guess. But there is more. Without the guide you can use the full length of the stone, making it faster and eliminating a lot of stone flattening time. Beside that, when freehand honing, the stone just doesn't need the same level of absolute flattness.
And I get all the precision I need from the hollow grind, there is really no need for a guide.
So, there was no looking back. Guides are indeed a waste of time, and above that they are of no use when you need to sharpen something which doesn't fit in the guide. It is just not logical to sharpen the easy stuff with a guide and the harder stuff, like gouges, freehand. This is all completely rational.
But it is truly liberating to be able to just turn around from your work, drop the chisel on the coarse stone, race it up and down to raise a wireedge. Then flip it over to the polishing stone and a few swipes on bevel and back and you're back in business.
I don't exactly remember how much time it costs to set the chisel in the guide and adjust it. Somewhere around 30 seconds I guess. But there is more. Without the guide you can use the full length of the stone, making it faster and eliminating a lot of stone flattening time. Beside that, when freehand honing, the stone just doesn't need the same level of absolute flattness.
And I get all the precision I need from the hollow grind, there is really no need for a guide.
So, there was no looking back. Guides are indeed a waste of time, and above that they are of no use when you need to sharpen something which doesn't fit in the guide. It is just not logical to sharpen the easy stuff with a guide and the harder stuff, like gouges, freehand. This is all completely rational.
David C
In Memorium
Precision grinding?
That must be very suspect but I have not worked out why, yet.....................
David
That must be very suspect but I have not worked out why, yet.....................
David
iNewbie
Established Member
Corneel":u12x0sml said:
They're not a waste of time to everyone, though. For some they're useful. The 'freehand' Rev-moon movement is all very nice but, some people take their pleasure in using a guide.
True. They may not need it, but, want to. I'm not sure if this is so hard to understand for some. Like, not taking the shortest route home - or to a place... Its called Free-will.
As long as you get the results you want thats all that matters. For some it seems that what matters is that, they, dictate what you need...
Carry on.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Yup. My experience too.Corneel":37r6pgmf said:
I fiddled about with jigs for years - flatness is the main issue - they don't work if the stone is not flat enough.
2nd prob is that you can't put a lot of force into it - it's difficult when you are trying to keep the wheels and the edge both engaged. The design is wrong - the wheels should be in front - you'd get a rounded bevel but would not be able to exceed the desired angle - as you so easily can with the badly designed conventional jig - completely defeating the object! What a dud design!
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