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Sharpening stone and vice

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cisamcgu

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Hi, I have an old sharpening stone (probably >60years old - was my Grandfather's). It is about 10" long and 3" wide, a very dark grey, almost black, and is set in a wooden box (I'll post a picture later if that will help)

My questions is : Do I use water or oil as a lubricant, and if oil, what sort ?

On a separate but related topic, I am getting his woodworking bench tomorrow, again over 60 years old, which has a vice attached. The vice is red, 6" wide and is marked as "REDEDA No 90". However, it doesn't work correctly, when the handle is unwound, the outer plate doesn't move and has to be pulled wider by hand, it works correctly when it closes however.

Does this indicate a broken vice, and if so, is it likely to be repairable ? I would like, if possible, to keep this vice if only for sentimental reasons.

Thanks in advance

Andrew
 

AndyT

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With the stone, try putting a drop of water onto it. If it stays as a bead, then the stone has been used with oil, and you should stick to oil. Any light general purpose oil will do; I use 3-in-1 which is widely available and reasonably priced. (If the water soaks in, it's a waterstone, but this is less likely with an old stone.)

With your vice, what you describe can happen to a quick release type - does yours have a separate little handle, which when squeezed, lets you slide the jaw in and out?

If it does, you probably just need to dismantle it and give it a good clean - it could be jammed up with old sawdust. I recommend a dry lubricant such as a PTFE spray once you have got it all moving again.
 

cisamcgu

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Thanks for the replies, and for the welcome. I will test the stone tonight and get some oil if needed. (Can I use WD40 as a temporary measure ?)

As for the vice, it doesn't have any quick release mechanism, I can slide the jaw out when the handle is wound just by pulling on the vice. I will be getting the workbench this afternoon and will have a more detailed look at the vice and maybe add some photos if I can work out how :)

Again, many thanks
 

Jacob

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WD40 will do as a permanent measure.
There are expensive "honing" oils available but nobody needs them.
 

bugbear

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cisamcgu":1gdinaay said:
Hi, I have an old sharpening stone (probably >60years old - was my Grandfather's). It is about 10" long and 3" wide, a very dark grey, almost black, and is set in a wooden box (I'll post a picture later if that will help)

My questions is : Do I use water or oil as a lubricant, and if oil, what sort ?
Wow - that's very big for an old stone. It's most likely to be a slate finishing stone of some sort, and (as such) the correct lubricant is oil of some kind. Easy to check with water first - it should bead up.

J Kingshott (author: Sharpening, The Complete Guide, and noted instructor and writer) recommends a simple mixture of ordinary engine oil (whatever you have around) mixed with white spirit or paraffin (ditto) until you get a mixture thin enough to work easily, but thick enough to carry the swarf away.

On a separate but related topic, I am getting his woodworking bench tomorrow, again over 60 years old, which has a vice attached. The vice is red, 6" wide and is marked as "REDEDA No 90". However, it doesn't work correctly, when the handle is unwound, the outer plate doesn't move and has to be pulled wider by hand, it works correctly when it closes however.

Does this indicate a broken vice, and if so, is it likely to be repairable ? I would like, if possible, to keep this vice if only for sentimental reasons.

Thanks in advance

Andrew
When you unwind the handle, does the screw (and handle) start to move away from the front face of the vise? If so, you have a missing "garter".

If the vise doesn't have a quick release, it should be easy to repair - q/r mechanisms are much more tricksy than plain screws,

BugBear
 

cisamcgu

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Thanks for the oil advice, and yes, it is rather a large stone !

Yes, you have descibed exactly how the vice behaves, is a garter easy to fix/buy/fit ? I have searched for the vice name on google, but I guess they have gone out of business, the vice seems very old.

(Sorry to ask such simple questions, but I'm rather new at this )
 

bugbear

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cisamcgu":ycxvh2wr said:
Thanks for the oil advice, and yes, it is rather a large stone !

Yes, you have descibed exactly how the vice behaves, is a garter easy to fix/buy/fit ? I have searched for the vice name on google, but I guess they have gone out of business, the vice seems very old.

(Sorry to ask such simple questions, but I'm rather new at this )
Garters vary - it's often a washer "somewhere" on the screw, held by a pin, and working against a jaw (or back).

As a restoration process, I would disassemble the vise (taking photos as you go), clean it up, and then look for a hole through the main screw shaft - "somewhere".

Alternatively, you might be able to see a worn area on a casting where it used to bear.

But a strip-and-clean is probably not a bad idea anyway.

BugBear
 

cisamcgu

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Well, I took the vice to pieces and I think I can see the problem. The screw thread has a small "defect" (I'm calling it a defect, but it is intenional) right near to the face plate. If there was a washer between the face plate and this "defect" the washer would pull the face plate away when the screw is turned - so what is missing is this washer.

(I haven't explained this very well)

Anyway, can these washers be obtained ? If it would help I will put some photos of the vice (once I work out how)
 

Digit

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Don't worry, we are familiar with vises, (vices!) and your description makes sense. I've never heard it described as a garter though. Normally it is just a thick washer with probably a split pin to hold it in place.

Roy.
 

pip1954

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hi is there a plain bar (n0 thread) i think there should be a hole in it where a pin should go it may have been sheared of
pip
 

AndyT

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cisamcgu":ro8h522d said:
If it would help I will put some photos of the vice (once I work out how)
Reply to this thread; switch to the "Full Editor" if necessary. Scroll down to the bit about attaching files, follow the instructions to upload pictures from your PC. (They need to be fairly small in size, so switch your camera down to a 'compact' setting or re-size them on your PC before uploading.)

OR put them on a publicly accessible site such as Photobucket, and paste in the picture url to your reply, within Img tags.
 

cisamcgu

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OK, I have taken the vice apart again, and had a closer look.

vice.jpg


name.jpg


bottom.jpg



What I orginally thought was a "deffect" in the screw thread was in fact the remains of a cotter-pin jammed in a hole. I drilled out the cotter-pin and was left with a hole in the screw thread very close to the face plate.

longer.jpg


closeup.jpg


I have got a cotter-pin that will fit but I am not sure what else I need to do. If I simple put the pin through the hole and then put the vice back together, then it will sort of work, but the pin rubs against the back of the face plate as the screw turns (widening the jaws) and I can see how, very quicky, the cotter-pin will be worn down or jam the thread. Now , I could put a washer between the pin and the face-plate, but I'm not sure that will help any.

Any ideas ?


Thanks in advance

Andrew
 

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Digit

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There should be a large washer between the pin and the moving jaw of the vise. The washer takes the thrust and the pin keeps it in place.
It would seem that someone has worn the washer away and carried on using it perhaps.

Roy.
 

cisamcgu

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If I put a large washer between the moving jaw and the pin, surely the pin will just rotate against the washer as the jaw is opened and very quickly wear through, or jam in the threads of the screws ?

Is there anywhere that has an exploded picture of this type of vice ? of detailed pictures of one being disassmbled ?

Thanks in advance

Andrew
 

Digit

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As the screw rotates out of the nut the washer will come up against the inside of the moving jaw till the washer hits the pin. Then the jaw will also move.

Roy.
 

cisamcgu

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OK, I'll give it a shot, once I can find a washer big enough. The screw looks like it is 9/16 of an inch in diameter, so I presume I am looking for a washer with an internal diameter of 5/8 or maybe 3/4 of an inch ? Any good places to look :) ?

Thanks

Andrew
 

Digit

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Make one! It does not have to be any special shape, all it does is prevent the pin from wearing the face of the jaw.

Roy.
 

bugbear

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Digit":3hz7e8cd said:
Make one! It does not have to be any special shape, all it does is prevent the pin from wearing the face of the jaw.

Roy.
Agreed - scrap piece of sheet metal, draw circle, cut out, drill out centre, use round file to expand centre hole.

Fiddly, but fairly easy.

BugBear
 
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