Sharpening on stones with a guide

[MIGNAL]

Freehand you can practically use a stone not much larger than 2" x 3". In fact my method involves very short forward/backward strokes with the blade, not the long strokes full length of the stone. Short strokes = less overall movement, easier to maintain the angle. Obvious really. Try bowing a violin, you'll soon find out the difference large arm/hand movements make.
You can't skew the blade with a guide, you have to present it face on if you want the wheel to spin. Freehand I can present a blade edge on should I choose. It's just a much more flexible system. Guides are very crude in comparison to the workings of the human hands and arms.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Interestingly, I've just had an email from Axi - only £96 - go for it!!
http://www.axminster.co.uk/lie-nielsen- ... ning_Guide

 

[MIGNAL]

Crikey! You need very deep pockets for that and the separate jaws. Even one set of jaws and it's up to £100.
Really, just keep trying the freehand. It's a truly liberating experience. If you are still having trouble use the method that DW outlined. It's so simple it's hard to go wrong.

 

[Corneel]

Don't forget all the special jaws: http://www.axminster.co.uk/lie-nielsen-honing-guide-jaws-ax961662
You can easilly raise the price up to 300 quid or so (and still can't sharpen a simple gouge).

 

[Jacob]

Interestingly, I've just had an email from Axi - only £96 - go for it!!
http://www.axminster.co.uk/lie-nielsen- ... ning_Guide

Not a leftover April fool joke?
Somebody will buy you can be sure of that!
If you spend another £130 you can buy all the little add-ons to make it even more indispensable! It still won't do cambered blades though. That add-on will be along later I expect. Another £50?
Never give a sucker an even break! :lol:

Seriously though - only a complete silly person would buy it.

 

[MarkDennehy]

...but why is that one £96 when the standard eclipse and it's billion clones aren't even £9.60?
Or is this just the same kind of nonsense that sees a record 071 on ebay being priced at more than a new veritas router plane?

 

[AndyT]

It does make the jig shown earlier (three bits of scrap wood and a g-cramp) seem a remarkably good idea, IF you want a jig - but let's not go round that loop again...

 

[Paul Chapman]

Well, I bought the Lie Nielsen honing guide (plus the set of long jaws) last year - one of the first batch to come into the country. It's superb. While it looks similar to the Eclipse, it's significantly different in several respects.

Best thing since sliced bread

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[profchris]

I have no view on the best way to sharpen, and certainly none about how others should do it. I don't get on well with jigs, but that's me, not the jig. But I am inconsistent, and I recently discovered why, which might help some who can't always get a good edge.

The three fundamental steps, (a) flatten back, (b) hone until there is a burr across the full width, (c) remove burr, seems to cover all one needs to know. But, I've found that removing the burrs I make requires further work on the back of the blade, and more than my reading led me to believe. Often I was just rounding over the burr rather than removing it, thus producing a less than sharp blade.

So if anyone gets a full width burr but then doesn't end up with a sharp blade, try working the back for a few seconds more. Now I do this and get much better results.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

In need of a tip here.

I'm sharpening plane irons and chisels with the scary sharp method and using one of the ten million clones of the eclipse guide, and everything's fine - because I can use a relatively long strip of sandpaper so I get a good bit of travel on it. And when I use the oilstones it's more or less okay as well because they're fairly long and easy to turn around. But I got some (really cheap, but I'll upgrade to proper DMZ or EZE-lap ones in a while) diamond stones and was using them this weekend and realised that they're so short that I'm getting about 2-3 inches of travel at most or the guide wheel goes off the stone and the angle changes (and if I start with the guide wheel off the stone and on the bench hook platform I use, I still only get 2-3 inches of movement before the wheel jumps up onto the stone). And since the stones are taped in place, spinning them round to avoid uneven wear is a little awkward.

I tried holding the angle by hand. And learned that when it comes to sharpening woodworking hand tools, I'm a pretty decent software engineer (hammer)

How do you guys manage to get round that? Inset the stones into the bench hook or something? Or do you just have to go and learn to do it without the guide?

Hi Mark

There is nothing "wrong" with using a honing guide. What is important is that you get your blades sharp, and then are able to go woodworking. Some here pride themselves on their sharpening, while others pride themselves on what they build with a sharp edge.

What you do need to recognise is that, if you wish to use a honing guide, then the sharpening media must accommodate it. This means space/length to run the guide, and a flat surface to maintain the bevel angle. Most stones - water, oil or diamond - need to be at least 8" long and 3" wide.

Freehand sharpening opens up more options: you do not rely on the setup limits of a guide, plus you can use really small sharpening media.

In some cases a guide is the preferred method. For example, I use the new LN guide (Ya sucks to all its detractors! ) for bevel up plane blades (since these require a secondary microbevel). Yes I could use a cheap Eclipse, but the LN is better (and my wife paid for it, so take it up with her). All the rest - chisels and bevel down plane blade - I freehand. Some very respected furniture makers and teachers use a guide for everything. Sharpening is just a path to woodworking.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Cheshirechappie]

On the basis of making best use of what's available, how about making a simple cradle to hold the short sharpening stone, with a sort of wooden runway at the same height as the stone surface for the guide wheel of the jig to run on? Three pieces of wood - one long one, with two shorter bits attached, one at each end of the long bit (glue, nails, screws, whatever), one short bit to stop the stone falling off the end of the long bit, and a medium sized bit for the guide runway at the other end of said long bit, with the stone 'trapped' between.

Occasionally, you see old oilstones in boxes with an insert at each end of the stone level with the face. I sometimes wonder if that was for the same reason.

------

On the wider question of jig vs. freehand - the arguments really bemuse me. I think about 98% of woodworkers really don't give a flying fig what method anybody else uses to get their edges sharp, but a very small number seem determined to prove beyond all doubt that their pet method is the only 'right' way. It doesn't matter at all which type of grinder, honing stone, strop or whatever you choose to use, provided you get the edges you need for the work you do. Freehand? Fine. Jig? Great. Secret addition of moonshine and fairy dust to the surface of the stone? Yeah - if it works for someone, let 'em carry on.

If - sometime in the future - somebody feeling their way in the early stages of learning the craft asks a perfectly sensible, simple question, maybe we could try answering the question, helping them out a bit - and refrain from ramming our prejudices down their throats? No names, but you know who I mean!

 

[AndyT]

On the basis of making best use of what's available, how about making a simple cradle to hold the short sharpening stone, with a sort of wooden runway at the same height as the stone surface for the guide wheel of the jig to run on? Three pieces of wood - one long one, with two shorter bits attached, one at each end of the long bit (glue, nails, screws, whatever), one short bit to stop the stone falling off the end of the long bit, and a medium sized bit for the guide runway at the other end of said long bit, with the stone 'trapped' between.

That's such a good idea, it's a wonder nobody thought to suggest it back on page 1!

I believe this thread has now started to eat its own tail, and should be left to die quietly in a corner... :lol: :lol:

(Image by anonymous medieval illuminator; uploader Carlos adanero [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons)

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Oops - sorry, Andy!

Must admit, I didn't feel like reading the whole thread through again....and it's not so much going in a circle, as doing about 3000rpm.

 

[G S Haydon]

Picture of your proposal Andy, CC. Not a good idea with soft water stones but ok on diamond plates and oil stones. The eclipse pattern guide is also ideal for starting out, if using a guide is something that you want.

 

[Trafalgar]

Wish you'd post pictures of your bench again....

 

[G S Haydon]

Not sure if you're yanking my chain Charles but my most recent lash up is this one. The stud work material was less fun to use than the joinery quality stuff last time but it was still ok.

 

[MarkDennehy]

Hush you. Look at that wonderful metal inlay filigree work, cunningly disguised as ordinary timber stud connectors. Marvellously understated.

 

[Trafalgar]

Not jerking your chain at all Graham. I love the bench. I still need to build a new one. Post more pics, please.

 

[Ttrees]

+1 for the eclipse style jig
I found it trained me to sharpen freehand
getting the bevel down at just the correct angle and feeling the burr
maybe muscle memory but I think it was more of a learning to feel the correct angle to land down at
Hard to explain (hammer)

 

[MattRoberts]

Not jerking your chain at all Graham. I love the bench. I still need to build a new one. Post more pics, please.

He's done a series of videos on YouTube on the build. You should check them out. It amazes me that he doesn't reach for a power tool once!