Sharpening a scrub plane

[Jacob]

Sorry, me being boring again!
If you've seen the scrub plane threads you will have seen the difficulties people have in sharpening them with jigs and having to resort to freehand. :shock:
Just to remind myself I sharpened one this morning as the blade was out (measuring it for Andrea).
It took about 30 seconds on an oil stone. It is about the easiest possible edge to sharpen freehand. Easier and quicker than sharpening a pencil, about as difficult as blowing your nose.
I think the reason I appear to be obsessed by sharpening is that I am mystified as to why a whole generation of woodworkers seem to have been persuaded that these things are difficult, as though they are all in a hypnotic trance.
Come on, pull yourselves together, snap out of it!

How you do it: Hold the blade at about 30º and sweep it sideways across the stone starting on one corner of the edge and twisting to end on the other one. A sort of scoop stroke. Right to left. Or vice versa. Or any other way. Just do it! Then take the burr off in the usual way. Repeat as necessary with shorter pauses between honing the bevel and removing the burrs

 

[RossJarvis]

How you do it: Hold the blade at about 30º and sweep it sideways across the stone starting on one corner of the edge and twisting to end on the other one. A sort of scoop stroke. Right to left. Or vice versa. Or any other way. Just do it! Then take the burr off in the usual way. Repeat as necessary with shorter pauses between honing the bevel and removing the burrs

Jacob, was this with a ready radiused edge (i.e. already curvy scrubby blade) or from a new square ended blade/iron/cutty thing. I've found the sharp corners can dig in at first and damage the stone, so any advice for starting to get the profile from new.

Ross

 

[Corneel]

To make a new one I would use a grinder. Draw a pleasing looking curve on the back of the blade with a sharpie. Then hold the blade at 90 degrees to the wheel and shape it to the curve. Then angle the toolrest to 25-30 degrees and finish the bevel, all the while checking your progress of course.

 

[Jacob]

Same. Shaping and sharpening are easier as two entirely separate processes.
If an edge needs shaping (radius, back to square, whatever) do it at 90º to the grinder, then grind the bevel, then hone. Just hone thereafter, it shouldn't need any more grinding until damaged.
If you haven't got a bench grinder an angle grinder will do. If you have to do it by hand (or angle grinder) perhaps hold it in a vice vertically and apply a rough old stone to it - not your sharpening stone.

PS if you haven't got any grinder at all there are various discs for drills which should be OK for shaping.

 

[Andrewf]

Am a bit disappointed that this hasn't caused a huge wailing and gnashing of teeth from some parts of the forum. Always enjoy the sharpening debates.

 

[Mike.C]

Am a bit disappointed that this hasn't caused a huge wailing and gnashing of teeth from some parts of the forum. Always enjoy the sharpening debates.

Andrew sorry that you have been made to feel that way, but from now on anyone wailing and gnashing their teeth from either side of the sharpening divide will see their post edited or removed, and if they continue to spoil it for everyone else (and make extra work for the mods) they will be taking a sharpening holiday.

Cheers

Mike

 

[DannyEssex]

This may sound really crazy to you lot, but I have just realised I'v messed up big time

I brought some tools at a local bootsale last week to get me started and in the bargain I got a small plane, When I got it home I set about giving it a clean and tried to sharpen it up. I put the blade to my square and noticed it had a slight curve, so for the last day or so I have been trying to get it square


Have I messed the blade up completely? There's still a curve to it but in the process of trying to get it sharp it feels more blunt? Iv been using wet and dry paper on a sheet of glass

 

[Jacob]

It'll be fine ! Just keep at it til it comes out right. Straight edge is fine, so is camber, depends on what you want to when you get planing with it. Cocking it up and getting it right again is par for the course, everybody does it, it's all part of the learning curve.

 

[KevM]

Jacob,

I saw a video a while back, I think it was Deneb from Lie Nielsen, demoing sharpening for a scrub plane. He did pretty much what you describe, effectively drawing a falling leaf pattern along the length of a sharpening stone. Well, 'falling leaf' is what I call it, and it works for me. I was a tad worried about doing it but it turned out fine, I was starting with a pre-radiussed blade.

Kev

 

[Jacob]

Thanks for that Kev. Here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAq3hgSRVKM
He also says dress (shape) it first, which goes for all sharpening of course.
Any old pattern will do. I have the stone sideways, hold the blade sideways on and just do a swoop from one end of the stone to the other.
But it's best not to think about it too hard and just do it!

PS I do it like this http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/q ... plane.aspx but instead of a short pass across the stone it's sideways and a long pass along.
They both make it look a bit more fiddly than it need be - a scrub is probably the easiest of all edges to freehand. And they have larger radius blades, not that scrubby.

 

[KevM]

"Use the Force" does seem to be sound advice for freehand sharpening, I was pleasantly surprised how easy it was to 'feel' what was right for the scrub. I've recently acquired a bargain pair of Clifton spokeshaves (convex & concave) in brand new, never sharpened, condition. The convex blade I was going to tackle as per the scrub plane, I'm still trying to work out the best strategy for the concave blade. In the absence of any rounded slip stones I'm toying with the idea of some wet & dry glued to a large diameter dowel. I was considering shaping a hardwood fid, i.e. the complement of the blade's shape, while it's still got its factory fresh shape and using that as a guide to glue the wet & dry to - then I realised I'd inevitably lose it in a week or so. Maybe it's just time to find some bargain slip stones...

 

[Cheshirechappie]

"Use the Force" does seem to be sound advice for freehand sharpening, I was pleasantly surprised how easy it was to 'feel' what was right for the scrub. I've recently acquired a bargain pair of Clifton spokeshaves (convex & concave) in brand new, never sharpened, condition. The convex blade I was going to tackle as per the scrub plane, I'm still trying to work out the best strategy for the concave blade. In the absence of any rounded slip stones I'm toying with the idea of some wet & dry glued to a large diameter dowel. I was considering shaping a hardwood fid, i.e. the complement of the blade's shape, while it's still got its factory fresh shape and using that as a guide to glue the wet & dry to - then I realised I'd inevitably lose it in a week or so. Maybe it's just time to find some bargain slip stones...

If you make a couple or three sticks with curved faces, glue different grades of wet-and-dry to them (say, coarse for reshaping, medium for honing and fine for finishing), but make them a slightly smaller radius than the blade. Hold the blade at bevel angle in the vice with the bevel horizontal, and apply the home-made 'files' parallel to the bench top. If you make the 'files' with a handle, they're easier to hold, and they look like tools so they don't go missing so easily. You can also glue a piece of leather to one, dress it with polishing compound of some sort, and strop with it.

They are good for in-cannel gouges too, should you ever need some. You may have to make a few different sizes to suit smaller gouges, though.

 

[Kalimna]

The way I sharpen the scrub blade is to DS tape a piece of wood (same width as the blade, with the edge curvature sanded at 90degrees to the face of the 'template' ) and use the template edge as a guide on the horizontal bar of my Jet copy of a Tormek, rocking side to side with the bar at an appropriate height to give around a 30 degree bevel.
Once the template is shaped, it takes less time to sharpen than it does to describe. Much like Jacobs description in that respect.
I don't bother honing beyond that as a scrub plane, to me, is a rough working tool and the surface will be refined with another tool afterwards.

Adam

 

[Jacob]

OK but sounds a bit over complicated in that it's easy to freehand grind the shape and then the bevel (you do it, and you look at it at intervals a.k.a. "eyeballing") and then freehand the honing.
All the contrivances just get in the way and slow things up.
There isn't a problem demanding a solution. It's really easy.

Mod Edit

 

[Jacob]

So why do people find it so difficult? Part of the answer is with the media of course - we are told thats it's difficult.
In fact if you look at the two links above (Deneb P and Garret H) they make it look more difficult than it really is. Deneb goes on about "registering" the angle, locking the elbows (mine don't lock :shock: ) and what they both do is short sideways twitches across the stone. All they need to do is turn the stone 90º and do long lengthways swoops instead. Put a bit of speed/force into it and relax the elbows!
Their method will work of course but they don't really know how to do it efficiently and easily.

 

[j123j]

I was just sharpening a jack blade, threw it in a jig (20 seconds) and went to the stones. Worked like a charm. :ho2

 

[bugbear]

So why do people find it so difficult? Part of the answer is with the media of course - we are told thats it's difficult.
In fact if you look at the two links above (Deneb P and Garret H) they make it look more difficult than it really is. Deneb goes on about "registering" the angle, locking the elbows (mine don't lock :shock: ) and what they both do is short sideways twitches across the stone. All they need to do is turn the stone 90º and do long lengthways swoops instead. Put a bit of speed/force into it and relax the elbows!
Their method will work of course but they don't really know how to do it efficiently and easily.

YouTube is free to use, and I know you have a video capable camera.

Put up a video of your technique, and show Deneb P and Garret H the error of their ways.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

I might have a go I've never used the video bit. There's enough description above though. It isn't difficult!

 

[Billy Flitch]

I think what you have to keep in mind is, it is a scrub plane iron that we are talking about. I shape it on the grind stone and that's it. I`m not going to waist any time honing it,when I use it I take chips of the wood not nice thin shavings.

On site I carried an axe for years for cutting wall plugs and I never even put that on a stone just sorted it out with a file.
The scrub plane just rips into it and just gives it Wellie not fine wood work at all.
As some one said before I`ve got better things to do with my time than spend it honing a scrub plane iron.

 

[Jacob]

I think what you have to keep in mind is, it is a scrub plane iron that we are talking about. I shape it on the grind stone and that's it. I`m not going to waist any time honing it,when I use it I take chips of the wood not nice thin shavings.

On site I carried an axe for years for cutting wall plugs and I never even put that on a stone just sorted it out with a file.
The scrub plane just rips into it and just gives it Wellie not fine wood work at all.
As some one said before I`ve got better things to do with my time than spend it honing a scrub plane iron.

You mean you don't polish them with diamond powder until you can see your face in them? :shock: :shock:

I still think a quick hone on a medium stone is a good idea - a little and often just to keep the edge in good nick, both plane and axe. Doesn't take long.