Sellers sharpening for woodwork newbie?

[TheWizardofOdds]

I have decided to go down the Paul Sellers road in starting woodwork. I have purchased The Essential Woodworker and Sellers book too. My plan is to go between the two. My first task is to sharpen my plane, spokeshave and chisels. Having read Paul's book I would like to do the diamond stone and strop sharpening. The problem is one of cost. He says not to buy cheap stones and to purchase good ones. I see where he is coming from but I am spending a fair amount setting up a toolkit and cannot justify £150 for three stones.

Can anyone recommend diamond stones and / or strop at a more reasonable ( for me) price?

I at first looked at the Stanley/Irwin oilstone and guide kits at around £15 or so but would like to get the tools as sharp as the ones you see in Seller's book. When I looked at the Stanley kit in a store it looked a bit flimsy.

Any thoughts on this are much appreciated.

David

 

[wizard]

Heck! Here we go again :shock:

 

[Spindle]

Hi

I suspect you'll be deluged with helpful advice

There are many 'sharpening' threads to read also :wink:

Regards Mick

 

[rafezetter]

Heck! Here we go again :shock:

I've read enough sharpening threads here that that made me laugh.

However Paul does do a utube stating that 250 grit is really all you need to actually get the job done, more than that just makes it easier, in the same way a pushbike will get you there, but an Aston Martin is a nicer ride

I had an issue with some oak not long ago (I had sharpened to 600grit) and on the back of it bought some finer scary sharpening sheets, but only up to about 4000 grit. The 600 grit did cut the oak, and it might have been easier to do if the top and bottom of the door I was planing wasn't lying sideways, but after some huffing I did manage to get where I wanted to be.

Here's the vid in question, so before you rush out and drop that kind of money, make sure you'll actually NEED to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbAo4RpM7oM

 

[nev]

We should be OK, the question from the OP is about which stones as opposed to which method, so hopefully the thread will fill with useful shopping suggestions and not degenerate into handbags

 

[carlb40]

While i would normally suggest buying the best you can afford, in this case i would suggest the lower end. Most diamond stones will be flat enough for chisels etc. It will be doubtful there will be much if any of a hollow/ bump across the width. So something like the faithfull / axi diamond stones should be fine. One other thing to consider is until you have tried a method you might not like it or suit you. So IMO getting expensive DMT / EZE- lap stones from the start could be an expensive mistake.

All the different methods of sharpening medium have their place and are equally as valid as another. There is no right or wrong just different. As long as the tool gets sharpened then it has done it's job.

 

[MIGNAL]

I have a number of different sharpening media: Oil, diamond, Arkansas, Waterstones, Slate.
A couple of months ago I bought this combination diamond stone:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Master-Class-Si ... B004VQXO84

So far it's worked perfectly well. It takes you up to 600G. The only thing I can't tell you about is how long it will last. For a cheap polishing stone see the thread on the dragon Slate stones.

 

[G S Haydon]

It's going to be tough as we all use different things. The Norton India combination stone oil stone is very good value. Combine it with a strop and you well have a decent edge for around £30.00.

 

[Scouse]

if diamond stones are the route you want to take, Trend do a reversible 300/1000 grit stone that I have seen Rob Cosman enthusing about...

http://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/productli ... tones.html

and Axi do a similar 8 inch stone for 22 quid, maybe worth a punt

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-do ... ench-stone

Can't advise as to the quality, but I believe Trend are pretty good and Axminster have a good customer service policy if you are not happy. Axi also do a strop with compound for around a tenner.

Seller's 'superfine' stone is 1200 grit, so you are not far off his recommendation with the 1000 grit stones above, especially if you intend to strop afterwards.

El.

 

[Woodchips2]

Paul Sellers also sharpens with abrasive papers see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki8tt-VjwqI where he gets some cheap Aldi chisels into shape.

Regards Keith

 

[SteveF]

I have the axi diamond stone
I am more than happy with it and is the one i use...along with various grades of wet n dry
I am definitely no expert and right or wrong I don't feel the need to spend oodles on stones
I have a large collection of oil and natural stones i have collected and never really use them tbh..stuck in a pile of why did i get that

Steve

 

[John15]

I'm using diamond stones at the moment up to 1200 grit and I'm pleased with the results. But after reading the thread on the Inigo Jones slate stone I couldn't resist buying one, but as it's rated at 8000 grit it's a big jump from my finest diamond stone. Do I need to get something in-between - do many people go beyond 1200 grit? If not I think Inigo Jones will be collecting dust on the top shelf.

Cheers,
John

 

[Cheshirechappie]

A strop should be pretty cheap to arrange. Aquire a piece of leather, say 8" x 2" or so - harder is better than softer - and glue to a piece of wood. There seems to be some debate about which way up; mine is furry side up, and seems to work OK. The leather can come from charity shop belt, scrounge from shoe repairer, or at a pinch Ebay sell leather pieces at moderate cost. The strop can be used as is, or can be dressed with a mild abrasive such as jeweller's rouge, chromium oxide paste, very fine diamond paste or Autosol metal polish. Some people dispense with the leather, and just dress a piece of MDF or similar with Autosol. They all work, the idea being to dress off the last of the wire-edge formed in honing on the stones, and polish up the cutting surfaces a bit, rather than to actually grind away metal to form a cutting edge.

The general principles of sharpening usually involve three stages - coarse (a rough stone or powered grinder) to form the basic geometry of the primary bevel, medium (honing stone) to form and maintain the secondary (working edge) bevel, and fine (polishing stone and/or strop) for when a very refined edge is needed. For some work - heavy chopping with chisels or rough jack plane work, for example - an edge from the medium honing stone is good enough. It's only really on the paring chisels and ultimate smoothing planes that the polished edge really does make a difference.

I've never used diamond stones, so unfortunately I can't help in translating 'coarse' 'medium' and 'fine' into grit numbers, but for an oilstone system, 'coarse' would be a coarse Norton India (or grinder of some sort - high speed bench, water-cooled slow speed, or hand-cranked), 'medium' would be a fine Norton India, and 'fine' would be a black or translucent Arkansas or Welsh Slate, or one of the many vintage stones such as Belgian coticules, Charnley Forest and so on.

I'm guessing now - perhaps somebody more knowledgeable could correct? - 'coarse' would be about 300 or 400 grit in diamond terms, 'medium' about 1000 grit, and 'fine' about 1200 grit or finer.

 

[MIGNAL]

Try it. If it doesn't seem to be having much effect increase the honing angle by a couple of degrees. The polishing stone only needs to do the very tip. I used to go from a 100G grindstone staright to a 8,000G waterstone, nothing between.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I'm using diamond stones at the moment up to 1200 grit and I'm pleased with the results. But after reading the thread on the Inigo Jones slate stone I couldn't resist buying one, but as it's rated at 8000 grit it's a big jump from my finest diamond stone. Do I need to get something in-between - do many people go beyond 1200 grit? If not I think Inigo Jones will be collecting dust on the top shelf.

Cheers,
John

I see from Axi's catalogue that DMT offer an extra-extra fine diamond stone that they rate at 8000 grit. I think the Dragon's Tongue is probably in about the same sort of range. (I don't think these grit numbers are on a linear range, frankly - bigger numbers are finer, that's about all you can say.)

Go on - give it a go! Polish the grinding fuzz off with wet-and-dry (I used 160, followed by 400 and finished with 1200, freehand with water as a lubricant, and both sides and both edges took me 15 minutes to finish) and use it only to refine edges, not form them. I have to admit I'm rather impressed with mine.

 

[carlb40]

I'm using diamond stones at the moment up to 1200 grit and I'm pleased with the results. But after reading the thread on the Inigo Jones slate stone I couldn't resist buying one, but as it's rated at 8000 grit it's a big jump from my finest diamond stone. Do I need to get something in-between - do many people go beyond 1200 grit? If not I think Inigo Jones will be collecting dust on the top shelf.

Cheers,
John

I do as i use scary sharp. Mathew used to list a rough equivelent grit on each of the 3m films, pretty sure the white one i use was around 30,000 grit.

 

[Bod]

Paul Sellers also sharpens with abrasive papers see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki8tt-VjwqI where he gets some cheap Aldi chisels into shape.

Regards Keith

I've watched this clip, the results he gets are very good, cheap materials, easy to follow, works for most blade types.
After working with various stones over the years, I'm very tempted to go this way.

Bod

 

[Mr_P]

To quote Charlton Heston

"From my cold dead hands"

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/natural-Arkan ... 27de48f0a6


Just an example, I'm not allowed to point to a live auction. You can normally get them for that price but longer and in a box.

Absolutely love mine, even more now I've starting using baby oil (tip from this very forum).

Should last me a life time unlike diamond stones. I've also heard great things about scary sharp but they have very high running costs compared to oilstones.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

A bit of googling brought forth this abrasive grit comparison chart. It might be informative. Or confusing.

http://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/grits.htm

 

[TheWizardofOdds]

Lovely stuff. Thanks to everyone for the advice and recommendations.

As mentioned by someone earlier, I was really interested in if there was any decent diamond plates/stones about for a reasonable sum. I've read lots of threads on sharpening and thought the forum could really do with another.

There is no way I will be spending the money on the EZE lap plates. I'd love to though. With my midlife crisis in full swing I have acquired a motorbike licence and bike and that, let me tell you is an expensive hobby too. So...I'm having to compromise in some areas of my woodwork tool kit acquisitioning.

Cheers